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welcome to the skeptic zone the podcast

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yes it's the skeptic zone episode number

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187 for the 19th of May 2012 and almost

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almost over my cold Richard Saunders

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here with you from another sunny day in

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Sydney Australia and I say another sunny

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day because it's been something like 24

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25 days now in a row where we haven't

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had a drop of rain in Sydney and it's

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making the news new record said what's

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very good for drying the clothes I must

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say on this week's show we delve into

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the world well a little bit of strange

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mysterious monsters and animals kicking

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off with penny tan with a penny for your

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thoughts no penny is not a strange

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mysterious monster or an all right herb

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but she's going to bring us Benjamin

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Radford in conversation with Brian

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Dunning at the University of California

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at Irvine just recently now Benjamin

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Radford is a very famous monster

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investigator brian dunning is a very

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famous the guy I'm sure he does

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something famous I'm sure somewhere

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along the line anyway Brian sits down

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with Benjamin Radford to chat about

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monster investigations and speaking of

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monsters and strange things of course

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this leads on to our next story which is

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Maynard spooky action Maynard checks to

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Lee Harvey who has had a first-hand

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experience in watching a black leopard

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in the Australian country side of the

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years we've heard reports about large

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feral exotic cats in Australia and ones

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never been caught but there are

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sightings Maynard talks to Lee Harvey

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who says he saw one and following up

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Maynard will chat to Peter bandage from

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rut

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bags calm for a more well skeptical

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point of view about large cats in

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Australia and to round off the show this

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week we have the think tank the small

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bird Mary think tank this week with dr.

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Richie bastard sheep James that is and

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myself running down to our favorite Club

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at the end of the street to chat about

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issues of the week mostly revolving

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around once again vaccinations and

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speaking of vaccinations and vaccination

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issues folks let me encourage you

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encourage you to go to ww skeptics on TV

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click on the show notes for this episode

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episode number 187 you will see a link

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to the catalyst science TV show here in

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Australia where in a few days ago they

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ran the story called danger zones about

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the importance of vaccinations now the

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video of their report is on their

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website and a transcript of the entire

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episode I encourage you I really do I

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encourage you to watch the video or read

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the transcript and then spend some time

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reading the comments because oh yes oh

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yes the flying monkeys as we call them

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the rabbit anti-vaccination crowd has

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bombarded the comment section on the

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catalyst website with their rantings

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including why don't people use

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homeopathic vaccinations I wish it was a

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sound effect forehead desk hang on i'm

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actually really going to hit my head on

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the desk just stand by Oh yep now you

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are folks that's a real head desk please

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go and have a look at that page or you

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can simply google catalyst ABC TV and

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that will get you to their website I'll

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have a few more littler announcements to

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make at the end of the show but let's

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get into this week's episode of the

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skeptic zone while I run down and have

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the last of my

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can soup to see off this cold once and

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is penny Chen

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then Radford is deputy director and

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columnist for skeptical Inquirer and

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co-host of skeptic magazines official

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podcast monster talk he's also author of

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several books on myths monsters and

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unexplained mysteries in March he

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traveled from his home in albuquerque

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new mexico to give a talk in fullerton

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california the next day he stopped an

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irvine to visit the OC science club the

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following is Ben Radford in conversation

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with Brian Dunning recorded in front of

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a live audience in the ant hill bar at

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UC Irvine I'm Brian Dunning from skeptic

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calm and this is ben Radford from Ben

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Radford car okay so we're here with Ben

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Radford in irvine california at the

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anthill pub and grill this is one of our

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science and sudden suds nights for the

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OCC what are we called doubt the OC

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science club or something like that so

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Ben Ben is visiting us from Albuquerque

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New Mexico I believe that's the correct

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pronunciation Abu Karuk is correct it's

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easy thank you it's actually sort of

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it's a blend of the Spanish and

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Portuguese you did very well thank you

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yeah I try I work on my foreign

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pronunciation all the time so Ben is

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here and we're going to we're going to

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basically ask them some questions about

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his current projects what he's doing in

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town and and so forth Ben what what

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exactly are you doing in town here

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tonight actually I just got done doing

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giving to talks at fullerton college for

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a local teacher there and that was for a

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critical thinking course and I was for

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whatever reason invited to come and

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speak actually I do know why it's

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because one of my books called media

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myth makers is being used as one of

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their texts and it was I was given the

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opportunity to come out and and see

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beautiful California and and spread some

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of my skepticism so it was nice so then

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you are you are one of the editors of

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skeptical Inquirer magazine is that what

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you're best known for yeah I'm actually

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deputy editor which is sort of the

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second banana the the main editor is Ken

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Frazier and he also lives in albuquerque

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new mexico which is kind of weird

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because the the two main

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operators for for skeptic inquire or in

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Albuquerque or whether however the hell

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you pronounced it earlier and the rest

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of them live in Buffalo New York and so

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it's a we have this sort of weird thing

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where we go the the main staff is there

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and we we sort of do the editorial back

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in in Buffalo so that's that's what I'm

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a known for mainly known for in terms of

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editorial beyond that it's probably like

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my investigations and you know the

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chupacabra and we are things like that

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what what what is uh what is skeptical

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Inquirer magazine and what do you do as

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deputy editor skeptical Inquirer is the

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publication that was it's basically the

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official publication of what was

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formerly known as the committee for the

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scientific investigation claims of the

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paranormal which is a it's a non-profit

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educational organization that has since

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been renamed the committee for skeptical

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inquiry or CSI when I first started

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doing the skeptic podcast which was

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about five and a half years ago I was

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completely new to the scene and your

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name was one of the names that always

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came up whenever I'd Google search to do

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research and things like that so

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obviously you've been around longer than

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I have what is what is your specialty do

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you have a particular area of science

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that you focus on are you more of a

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generalist what what is your area

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particularly when you're talking

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investigations I have probably three or

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four main areas one of them is

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cryptozoology which is basically that

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the science of unknown in mysterious

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animals and I'm also the co-host of a

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podcast called monster talk along with

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Blake Smith and Karen stalls now and so

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we we do all sorts of monstery science

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eat at things like that so I'm known you

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know again partly for the crips

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illogical stuff and I've written a book

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actually I co-authored a book with Joe

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Nickell with a senior research fellow at

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CSI and we did a book called lake

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monster mysteries together and my second

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two most recent book was called tracking

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the chupacabra the vampire beast in fact

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fiction folklore and that had to do with

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the the mysterious vampire Beast

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chupacabra and so that's that sort of

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that end of it I'm also known for

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investigating mysterious

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you know weird Sears things ghost

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investigations miracles pretty much all

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manner of weirdness at some point or

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another you actually go out into the

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field and do you actually travel around

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and visit places when you report on them

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do you is there such thing as having

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time or budget to do that how does his

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work know that that's a great question

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and the answer is whenever I can I try

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to do field work and that's one thing

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that really distinguishes my work I feel

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from a lot of sort of armchair

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investigators because you know I go to

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Loch Ness and look for the monster I go

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to Puerto Rico Nicaragua to look for a

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tuba cabra I go to different places and

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do investigations and stuff and so so

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instead of just sort of sitting back and

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saying oh that's all bull [\h__\h] oh yes

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all this must be true people like myself

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and and you know in you and join nickel

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and others feel like you actually need

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to invest eight you can't just sit there

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and believe it or disbelieve it and so

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within the resources that i have i try

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to do I you know go out there into

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investigations again because it's it's a

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non-profit educational organization it's

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not like CSI it's not like the x-files

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you know where it's like send out the

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black helicopters to go investigating

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you know a weeping statue in Detroit you

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know if we can't quite pull that off so

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so a lot of some of the investigations

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are done in coordination with cfi other

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ones are done in coordination with for

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example television shows sometimes it's

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just sort of its opportunistic for

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example a couple years back I was on I

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was in Jamaica and I was just on

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vacation there and i found out that

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there's a famous haunted house called

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Rose Hall and there's a whole story

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behind it's actually it's supposedly the

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most famous haunted house in the

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Caribbean and I ended up doing a chapter

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in one of my books on the White Witch of

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rose hall and I sort of solved that case

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so again that's just a case of where

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it's opportunistic I'm there anyway why

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not spend a half day looking for ghosts

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Wow so how often are you actually out of

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the out of the house out of the office

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once a month what happen is this not as

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much as I like you know a lot of my job

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is very insular

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editorial work writing you know doing

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columns I do columns for Discovery News

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my science and skeptical Inquirer and

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elsewhere and so a lot I I work out of

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my own house I work alone except for my

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cat hugs to Zevon Zevon my cat and she

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you know she comes and you know

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irritates me and keeps me from working

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as I don't know if you have cats or not

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but that's what they do uh one cat and

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she does irritate me with her allergens

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yes yes well we have that too so yeah

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it's a lot of it is really sort of very

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insular writing stuff as is producing

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podcasts and stuff like that which is

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why it's really a pleasure for me to get

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00:12:37,360 --> 00:12:34,910
a chance to get out of the office and

272
00:12:38,860 --> 00:12:37,370
travel and you know go investigating and

273
00:12:40,300 --> 00:12:38,870
meet people and go out to the

274
00:12:44,500 --> 00:12:40,310
communities and meet the grassroot

275
00:12:47,170 --> 00:12:44,510
skeptics why the monsters is monsters

276
00:12:50,590 --> 00:12:47,180
something you just kind of happened to

277
00:12:52,420 --> 00:12:50,600
specialize in because because other

278
00:12:54,160 --> 00:12:52,430
people weren't is it a particular

279
00:12:56,650 --> 00:12:54,170
interest of yours how did how did the

280
00:12:57,970 --> 00:12:56,660
monster it come about yeah that's a good

281
00:13:00,759 --> 00:12:57,980
question i think the part of it is that

282
00:13:02,380 --> 00:13:00,769
i always found monsters to be more

283
00:13:04,509 --> 00:13:02,390
accessible than a lot of the other

284
00:13:05,650 --> 00:13:04,519
topics you if you're talking UFOs you

285
00:13:08,470 --> 00:13:05,660
know they're sort of out there they're

286
00:13:10,240 --> 00:13:08,480
beyond reach their sort of their seen by

287
00:13:11,829 --> 00:13:10,250
us here on earth but they're just just

288
00:13:14,110 --> 00:13:11,839
you know so far out there but with

289
00:13:16,240 --> 00:13:14,120
monsters you know you view theoretically

290
00:13:19,269 --> 00:13:16,250
these things are in our legs there you

291
00:13:21,100 --> 00:13:19,279
know in the woods there there there in

292
00:13:23,740 --> 00:13:21,110
theory within reach you know of any

293
00:13:25,420 --> 00:13:23,750
hikers or boaters wherever else and so I

294
00:13:27,670 --> 00:13:25,430
was always intrigued by this notion that

295
00:13:30,550 --> 00:13:27,680
there's these these unknown weird

296
00:13:34,360 --> 00:13:30,560
mysterious creatures that are routinely

297
00:13:36,579 --> 00:13:34,370
cited yet never proven to exist I mean

298
00:13:39,670 --> 00:13:36,589
how how does that work okay how can you

299
00:13:41,410 --> 00:13:39,680
have monsters in Lake Tahoe and not find

300
00:13:43,360 --> 00:13:41,420
them watching up how can you find

301
00:13:46,120 --> 00:13:43,370
monsters in Lake Champlain or Lake

302
00:13:47,590 --> 00:13:46,130
Okanagan and they're cited you know you

303
00:13:49,689 --> 00:13:47,600
know after a couple months and years and

304
00:13:50,800 --> 00:13:49,699
yet they're still not conclusive

305
00:13:52,629 --> 00:13:50,810
evidence and so that always really

306
00:13:55,180 --> 00:13:52,639
intrigued me and in the case of the

307
00:13:56,379 --> 00:13:55,190
chupacabra there were two parts one was

308
00:13:57,879 --> 00:13:56,389
that I had always had an interest in

309
00:14:00,670 --> 00:13:57,889
monsters and then again the sort of

310
00:14:03,100 --> 00:14:00,680
working with Bigfoot and Lake Monsters

311
00:14:05,780 --> 00:14:03,110
well with case the chupacabra you had a

312
00:14:07,700 --> 00:14:05,790
well-known creature that's basically the

313
00:14:10,220 --> 00:14:07,710
second or third best known monster after

314
00:14:11,210 --> 00:14:10,230
Bigfoot and the Loch Ness monster it's

315
00:14:12,800 --> 00:14:11,220
known all around the world there's

316
00:14:14,690 --> 00:14:12,810
websites there's there's you know a

317
00:14:16,550 --> 00:14:14,700
handful of books there's you know

318
00:14:18,860 --> 00:14:16,560
magazines messaging article somewhere

319
00:14:21,260 --> 00:14:18,870
Browns and yet there was just seemed to

320
00:14:22,190 --> 00:14:21,270
be no hard evidence of this and the

321
00:14:25,280 --> 00:14:22,200
other thing that intrigued me about

322
00:14:27,320 --> 00:14:25,290
chupacabra was that it's a vampire you

323
00:14:29,060 --> 00:14:27,330
know the Bigfoot is not a vampire there

324
00:14:32,000 --> 00:14:29,070
are no stories of Bigfoot sucking blood

325
00:14:33,890 --> 00:14:32,010
out of people most Lake Monsters with

326
00:14:36,290 --> 00:14:33,900
sort of one exception in case of Lake

327
00:14:38,390 --> 00:14:36,300
Okanagan Ogopogo isn't known for being

328
00:14:41,360 --> 00:14:38,400
bloodthirsty but the chupacabra is

329
00:14:43,040 --> 00:14:41,370
uniquely a vampire and so that was part

330
00:14:44,810 --> 00:14:43,050
of this thing that intrigued me about

331
00:14:47,660 --> 00:14:44,820
this particular monstre was that you can

332
00:14:49,160 --> 00:14:47,670
actually trace it back to to the the

333
00:14:50,240 --> 00:14:49,170
seventeen eighteen hundreds in Europe

334
00:14:52,730 --> 00:14:50,250
and you can actually trace it back to

335
00:14:54,530 --> 00:14:52,740
the early vampire stories and see the

336
00:14:57,440 --> 00:14:54,540
thread house or go through and so

337
00:15:00,620 --> 00:14:57,450
reincarnated for a 20th century Puerto

338
00:15:01,850 --> 00:15:00,630
Rican social area so that's that's

339
00:15:04,130 --> 00:15:01,860
that's what really intrigued me about

340
00:15:06,050 --> 00:15:04,140
that and and the reason that I was able

341
00:15:08,780 --> 00:15:06,060
to put so much time into the vampire

342
00:15:11,660 --> 00:15:08,790
into the chupacabra story was because it

343
00:15:14,150 --> 00:15:11,670
was it was only about 15 years old it

344
00:15:15,980 --> 00:15:14,160
was a finite monster if you look at you

345
00:15:17,930 --> 00:15:15,990
know I mean you can arguably say that

346
00:15:20,470 --> 00:15:17,940
for example Loch Ness monster dates back

347
00:15:23,780 --> 00:15:20,480
to like nineteen thirty eight or so 1932

348
00:15:26,560 --> 00:15:23,790
and Bigfoot beaten in the 50s but the

349
00:15:28,700 --> 00:15:26,570
chupacabra only had about 15 years of

350
00:15:30,260 --> 00:15:28,710
folklore in sightings everything else

351
00:15:32,630 --> 00:15:30,270
behind it and so it was a sort of

352
00:15:34,280 --> 00:15:32,640
self-contained mystery there was there

353
00:15:36,350 --> 00:15:34,290
are only so many reports there's only so

354
00:15:38,450 --> 00:15:36,360
many eyewitnesses there's finite number

355
00:15:40,160 --> 00:15:38,460
of stuff that I had to sort through that

356
00:15:42,260 --> 00:15:40,170
being said it took about five years to

357
00:15:44,240 --> 00:15:42,270
research it and I interviewed medical

358
00:15:46,520 --> 00:15:44,250
pathologists and you know forensic

359
00:15:49,130 --> 00:15:46,530
people and and you know folklorist and

360
00:15:50,450 --> 00:15:49,140
everything else so that was what would

361
00:15:52,760 --> 00:15:50,460
intrigued me about it again as I

362
00:15:55,310 --> 00:15:52,770
mentioned it's or took me to the jungles

363
00:15:57,020 --> 00:15:55,320
of Puerto Rico in Nicaragua I love

364
00:15:58,670 --> 00:15:57,030
jungles anyway so any chance I get to

365
00:16:02,720 --> 00:15:58,680
head to the jungle I'm like yeah

366
00:16:04,490 --> 00:16:02,730
chupacabra or not man I'm there so I I

367
00:16:06,020 --> 00:16:04,500
have to ask you to specific monster

368
00:16:07,970 --> 00:16:06,030
questions now based on what you're just

369
00:16:10,580 --> 00:16:07,980
talking about I live here in California

370
00:16:12,320 --> 00:16:10,590
and you mentioned Lake Tahoe now I've

371
00:16:14,540 --> 00:16:12,330
been to lake tahoe many times but i've

372
00:16:17,090 --> 00:16:14,550
never heard that a lake monster's there

373
00:16:18,980 --> 00:16:17,100
it's a huge lake it's the second deepest

374
00:16:19,700 --> 00:16:18,990
lake in north america after crater lake

375
00:16:22,640 --> 00:16:19,710
in oregon

376
00:16:23,630 --> 00:16:22,650
so what is the lake tahoe monster and

377
00:16:26,150 --> 00:16:23,640
the other question is you mentioned

378
00:16:28,160 --> 00:16:26,160
there's actually monsters lake monsters

379
00:16:29,930 --> 00:16:28,170
known for being bloodthirsty what are

380
00:16:32,540 --> 00:16:29,940
they actually killing people tell me

381
00:16:35,930 --> 00:16:32,550
about those two sure also with it with

382
00:16:39,580 --> 00:16:35,940
Tahoe Tessie as she is called Tahoe

383
00:16:41,840 --> 00:16:39,590
Tessie yeah and is it what's that

384
00:16:44,570 --> 00:16:41,850
copycat that's right the bastard is

385
00:16:46,490 --> 00:16:44,580
stealing our lake monsters no it's

386
00:16:49,220 --> 00:16:46,500
interesting because when you look at at

387
00:16:51,320 --> 00:16:49,230
Lake Monsters you you find that there's

388
00:16:53,480 --> 00:16:51,330
there's two sort of two versions on one

389
00:16:56,540 --> 00:16:53,490
hand you have monsters that are thought

390
00:16:59,210 --> 00:16:56,550
to be monstrous things that are scary

391
00:17:01,100 --> 00:16:59,220
and funeral and wild and dangerous on

392
00:17:03,230 --> 00:17:01,110
the other hand you have monsters which

393
00:17:06,079 --> 00:17:03,240
are thought to be cute and cuddly and in

394
00:17:08,329 --> 00:17:06,089
are embraced by the by the the local

395
00:17:09,680 --> 00:17:08,339
culture in the local society and so

396
00:17:11,840 --> 00:17:09,690
that's why for example when you go to

397
00:17:14,030 --> 00:17:11,850
Lake Champlain a note on the border

398
00:17:16,880 --> 00:17:14,040
between Vermont New York you find champ

399
00:17:19,130 --> 00:17:16,890
dolls a little fuzzy cute cutesy little

400
00:17:23,660 --> 00:17:19,140
dolly I mean when I was in in inverness

401
00:17:25,699 --> 00:17:23,670
scotland the the local image of Nessie

402
00:17:27,110 --> 00:17:25,709
is not a fearsome creature to rip your

403
00:17:30,110 --> 00:17:27,120
leg off and suck out the marrow of your

404
00:17:31,580 --> 00:17:30,120
bones it's a cute little green thing and

405
00:17:32,570 --> 00:17:31,590
hey isn't this cute and their t-shirts

406
00:17:35,150 --> 00:17:32,580
and hats and all sorts of other

407
00:17:36,770 --> 00:17:35,160
tchotchke stuff so it's always

408
00:17:39,080 --> 00:17:36,780
fascinated me to sort of see how these

409
00:17:42,320 --> 00:17:39,090
myths develop with each case in the case

410
00:17:44,510 --> 00:17:42,330
of Tahoe Tessie as you pointed out it's

411
00:17:47,060 --> 00:17:44,520
probably the most visited Lake you know

412
00:17:48,830 --> 00:17:47,070
certainly for recreation in the country

413
00:17:50,090 --> 00:17:48,840
and you would think that by now somebody

414
00:17:52,040 --> 00:17:50,100
would have found the damn thing if it

415
00:17:54,200 --> 00:17:52,050
was if it was there there's actually

416
00:17:56,480 --> 00:17:54,210
only handful of sightings and most of

417
00:17:58,670 --> 00:17:56,490
them actually date back as I recall to

418
00:18:01,880 --> 00:17:58,680
let the mid the mid 1980s and 1990s

419
00:18:03,950 --> 00:18:01,890
there's nothing really recent and when I

420
00:18:05,810 --> 00:18:03,960
went there I investigated it and I asked

421
00:18:07,700 --> 00:18:05,820
locals because you can buy t-shirts you

422
00:18:10,670 --> 00:18:07,710
can buy some hats things like that and I

423
00:18:14,240 --> 00:18:10,680
said you know seriously so you might

424
00:18:16,160 --> 00:18:14,250
believe this like all [\h__\h] man go buy a

425
00:18:18,740 --> 00:18:16,170
t-shirt right so I'll go buy a t-shirt

426
00:18:21,260 --> 00:18:18,750
go buy t-shirt I'm no comment go buy a

427
00:18:22,760 --> 00:18:21,270
t-shirt and and and again that's sort of

428
00:18:24,620 --> 00:18:22,770
that's one thing that fascinates me is

429
00:18:26,390 --> 00:18:24,630
again you have this sort of co-opting of

430
00:18:29,240 --> 00:18:26,400
monsters the selective clapping

431
00:18:31,940 --> 00:18:29,250
co-opting monsters and yo you're asking

432
00:18:33,420 --> 00:18:31,950
about about the bloodthirsty monster and

433
00:18:36,540 --> 00:18:33,430
yeah actually the

434
00:18:38,370 --> 00:18:36,550
the the the monster in in in Lake

435
00:18:41,250 --> 00:18:38,380
Okanagan in British Columbia it's called

436
00:18:43,290 --> 00:18:41,260
Ogopogo and it's really I spend I a

437
00:18:45,330 --> 00:18:43,300
chapter in my lake monster mystery book

438
00:18:47,430 --> 00:18:45,340
on it and it's um it's interesting

439
00:18:49,380 --> 00:18:47,440
because it's it's as far as I know it's

440
00:18:52,290 --> 00:18:49,390
the only or one of the only monsters

441
00:18:55,230 --> 00:18:52,300
that actually has a bloodthirsty story

442
00:18:57,450 --> 00:18:55,240
behind it and the story goes that an

443
00:19:01,530 --> 00:18:57,460
earlier incarnation of Ogopogo was a

444
00:19:03,870 --> 00:19:01,540
creature called nuh hiked and it's it's

445
00:19:06,060 --> 00:19:03,880
an Indian story the Hyatt and the story

446
00:19:08,490 --> 00:19:06,070
goes that with these the Indians when

447
00:19:11,160 --> 00:19:08,500
they would cross Lake Okanagan it would

448
00:19:13,110 --> 00:19:11,170
actually make sacrifices to the the the

449
00:19:15,360 --> 00:19:13,120
water creature that they believed out

450
00:19:16,950 --> 00:19:15,370
lives in the lake and these were wife

451
00:19:19,350 --> 00:19:16,960
sacrifices they would sometimes they

452
00:19:20,550 --> 00:19:19,360
would take dogs or chickens and before

453
00:19:22,530 --> 00:19:20,560
they cross the lake they would they

454
00:19:23,970 --> 00:19:22,540
would perform a ceremony and they would

455
00:19:25,320 --> 00:19:23,980
kill the dog or the chicken they would

456
00:19:26,850 --> 00:19:25,330
throw it overboard and it would sink

457
00:19:28,920 --> 00:19:26,860
down to the bottom where the lake

458
00:19:32,700 --> 00:19:28,930
monster would would accept the sacrifice

459
00:19:34,500 --> 00:19:32,710
and and presumably presumably accept the

460
00:19:37,110 --> 00:19:34,510
sacrifice and they would be allowed to

461
00:19:39,750 --> 00:19:37,120
proceed across the lake unharmed now of

462
00:19:41,790 --> 00:19:39,760
course you know there's no records of

463
00:19:43,560 --> 00:19:41,800
them not doing the sacrifice and coming

464
00:19:45,840 --> 00:19:43,570
up and eating anybody could that be a

465
00:19:48,420 --> 00:19:45,850
fun story and I'd like to be there for

466
00:19:51,150 --> 00:19:48,430
that but that that doesn't really happen

467
00:19:52,890 --> 00:19:51,160
so so a lot of times when people are

468
00:19:54,570 --> 00:19:52,900
trying to talk about the Ogopogo they

469
00:19:56,400 --> 00:19:54,580
say well you know this this actually

470
00:19:58,440 --> 00:19:56,410
goes back years and years ago to these

471
00:20:00,930 --> 00:19:58,450
these Native stories and it's very

472
00:20:02,490 --> 00:20:00,940
tempting to to accept that until you

473
00:20:04,020 --> 00:20:02,500
actually talk to people who know

474
00:20:08,100 --> 00:20:04,030
something about these native legends and

475
00:20:10,550 --> 00:20:08,110
their answer is [\h__\h] this is this is

476
00:20:13,500 --> 00:20:10,560
yes there was this story of naha act

477
00:20:15,960 --> 00:20:13,510
this this water demon but it was not

478
00:20:18,570 --> 00:20:15,970
thought to be a incarnate monster it was

479
00:20:20,610 --> 00:20:18,580
it was it was an elemental creature it

480
00:20:22,650 --> 00:20:20,620
had control over the winds it was a

481
00:20:24,450 --> 00:20:22,660
deity that they worshipped in the sky

482
00:20:26,820 --> 00:20:24,460
and also in the water and and frankly

483
00:20:30,150 --> 00:20:26,830
when you look at First Nations tales all

484
00:20:31,740 --> 00:20:30,160
throughout Canada it's hard to you can

485
00:20:33,570 --> 00:20:31,750
hardly find a pond or river or a stream

486
00:20:35,490 --> 00:20:33,580
that they didn't believe had some

487
00:20:38,730 --> 00:20:35,500
monster in it or some some you know some

488
00:20:40,590 --> 00:20:38,740
some you know water entity in it thanks

489
00:20:43,290 --> 00:20:40,600
to Brian Dunning and Ben Radford for a

490
00:20:45,420 --> 00:20:43,300
fun night don't forget if you live in LA

491
00:20:46,180 --> 00:20:45,430
or orange county you can join us for

492
00:20:48,190 --> 00:20:46,190
science and

493
00:20:51,820 --> 00:20:48,200
nights at the University of California

494
00:20:53,590 --> 00:20:51,830
Irvine at the anthill pub and grill for

495
00:20:55,869 --> 00:20:53,600
more info on these and other exciting

496
00:21:09,750 --> 00:20:55,879
group excursions you can check out the

497
00:21:15,880 --> 00:21:12,310
hi this is brian dunning from the

498
00:21:19,030 --> 00:21:15,890
sceptile podcast ATS kept I'd calm for

499
00:21:21,460 --> 00:21:19,040
15 years now dr. Bob's trivia quiz has

500
00:21:24,580 --> 00:21:21,470
been a part of Australian skeptics each

501
00:21:27,220 --> 00:21:24,590
month the mysterious dr. Bob comes up

502
00:21:30,190 --> 00:21:27,230
with questions that defy all logic and

503
00:21:32,320 --> 00:21:30,200
reason only the best of the best dare

504
00:21:35,919 --> 00:21:32,330
attempt to answer these brain twisters

505
00:21:40,060 --> 00:21:35,929
and no google won't help you visit dr.

506
00:21:44,260 --> 00:21:40,070
Bob's quiz wordpress.com that's dr be

507
00:21:47,560 --> 00:21:44,270
OBS quiz wordpress.com to take part and

508
00:21:50,590 --> 00:21:47,570
to see the complete archive of dr. bob's

509
00:22:04,330 --> 00:21:50,600
trivia quiz i'm brian dunning from

510
00:22:08,600 --> 00:22:04,340
sceptile calm his may not spooky action

511
00:22:13,200 --> 00:22:10,890
well we get a lot of mail here as you

512
00:22:14,970 --> 00:22:13,210
can imagine and got a letter from Lee

513
00:22:17,730 --> 00:22:14,980
Harvey highly how are you how are you

514
00:22:19,470 --> 00:22:17,740
pretty good now you had a look you know

515
00:22:21,630 --> 00:22:19,480
you had a pretty interesting experience

516
00:22:24,330 --> 00:22:21,640
now it's very hard to get the evidence

517
00:22:26,310 --> 00:22:24,340
for this but we here with you now and I

518
00:22:28,140 --> 00:22:26,320
want you to tell us what you witnessed

519
00:22:29,820 --> 00:22:28,150
just so we can share the experience with

520
00:22:31,620 --> 00:22:29,830
you because pretty much your words all

521
00:22:33,300 --> 00:22:31,630
we got fruit but you're pretty sure you

522
00:22:34,950 --> 00:22:33,310
saw it I've been having a chat with you

523
00:22:38,730 --> 00:22:34,960
and I I want everyone else to hear what

524
00:22:42,300 --> 00:22:38,740
you told me well on one glorious

525
00:22:45,120 --> 00:22:42,310
winter's morning back in 2010 I had the

526
00:22:48,780 --> 00:22:45,130
pleasure to view and observe a

527
00:22:50,610 --> 00:22:48,790
melanistic leopard for probably seven or

528
00:22:53,130 --> 00:22:50,620
eight minutes and now you're claiming

529
00:22:54,780 --> 00:22:53,140
you saw a black leopard trek in just a

530
00:22:56,850 --> 00:22:54,790
lot about six or seven minutes take it

531
00:23:00,030 --> 00:22:56,860
through the experience I just spent a

532
00:23:02,190 --> 00:23:00,040
night at my brother's place and was

533
00:23:05,640 --> 00:23:02,200
driving back home and I spent a lot of

534
00:23:07,770 --> 00:23:05,650
time out in the bush anyway and I'd

535
00:23:10,230 --> 00:23:07,780
often gone past the Assad road and I

536
00:23:11,250 --> 00:23:10,240
often go and explore these places to see

537
00:23:14,460 --> 00:23:11,260
what's there and they're sort of thing

538
00:23:17,760 --> 00:23:14,470
and decided to take this one morning and

539
00:23:21,780 --> 00:23:17,770
it brought me to a abandoned dairy farm

540
00:23:24,450 --> 00:23:21,790
basically very close to a town I stopped

541
00:23:26,570 --> 00:23:24,460
at the boundary gate to this property

542
00:23:29,430 --> 00:23:26,580
and I don't go into properties isn't and

543
00:23:33,240 --> 00:23:29,440
just so happened that morning out of our

544
00:23:36,600 --> 00:23:33,250
building emerged to young foxes and they

545
00:23:37,800 --> 00:23:36,610
came came out of the shed and we're

546
00:23:39,930 --> 00:23:37,810
having a bit of a play around and

547
00:23:41,760 --> 00:23:39,940
chasing each other and and what island

548
00:23:43,770 --> 00:23:41,770
is basically enjoy in the morning then

549
00:23:46,950 --> 00:23:43,780
one decided to sort of break off from

550
00:23:51,360 --> 00:23:46,960
its partner and dissipated over the rise

551
00:23:53,820 --> 00:23:51,370
of a hill that Fox reappeared and was

552
00:23:56,790 --> 00:23:53,830
going breakneck speed back to the

553
00:24:00,270 --> 00:23:56,800
shedded had to come out of and was it

554
00:24:02,040 --> 00:24:00,280
there within sort of 34 seconds the

555
00:24:04,200 --> 00:24:02,050
distance it traveled and the other one

556
00:24:06,390 --> 00:24:04,210
had picked up on that by the same stage

557
00:24:10,290 --> 00:24:06,400
as well and done the exact same thing to

558
00:24:13,490 --> 00:24:10,300
run into the shed then a quite amazing

559
00:24:16,520 --> 00:24:13,500
thing happened a huge

560
00:24:18,830 --> 00:24:16,530
black cat came over one was chasing it

561
00:24:20,720 --> 00:24:18,840
was actually chasing it how fast was it

562
00:24:23,320 --> 00:24:20,730
going in about how large diff themed

563
00:24:29,120 --> 00:24:23,330
animal was probably around the mark of

564
00:24:30,950 --> 00:24:29,130
1.5 1.7 body length and with a matching

565
00:24:33,710 --> 00:24:30,960
tile probably about two-thirds of their

566
00:24:38,150 --> 00:24:33,720
body length huge star very very

567
00:24:39,740 --> 00:24:38,160
noticeable it was going fast at the time

568
00:24:41,870 --> 00:24:39,750
but what had happened when it came over

569
00:24:45,200 --> 00:24:41,880
the rise and saying that the foxes had

570
00:24:47,960 --> 00:24:45,210
outsmarted it it's slow right down and

571
00:24:51,410 --> 00:24:47,970
actually started being very coy sort of

572
00:24:52,940 --> 00:24:51,420
prance as it slowed down to a walk had

573
00:24:54,980 --> 00:24:52,950
you ever seen anything like this before

574
00:24:59,990 --> 00:24:54,990
in the wild is it possible you were

575
00:25:02,120 --> 00:25:00,000
mistaken no this is in a in a grass

576
00:25:04,250 --> 00:25:02,130
paddock there was nothing in surrounding

577
00:25:05,480 --> 00:25:04,260
it was quite open it was very sunny like

578
00:25:09,980 --> 00:25:05,490
I said it was only about ten in the

579
00:25:12,820 --> 00:25:09,990
morning I study animals and plants and

580
00:25:16,280 --> 00:25:12,830
I've seen most of our Australian animals

581
00:25:19,910 --> 00:25:16,290
plus our feral animals as well this is

582
00:25:21,980 --> 00:25:19,920
most definitely a large cat after it had

583
00:25:25,010 --> 00:25:21,990
actually initially missed the foxes and

584
00:25:27,710 --> 00:25:25,020
it it walked over to the shed and

585
00:25:31,610 --> 00:25:27,720
sniffed where they entered the shed

586
00:25:33,980 --> 00:25:31,620
itself and then circumnavigated the shed

587
00:25:35,840 --> 00:25:33,990
basically walk right around it came to

588
00:25:39,440 --> 00:25:35,850
the the front of the shed where I could

589
00:25:43,520 --> 00:25:39,450
see quite plainly flipped over on its

590
00:25:46,120 --> 00:25:43,530
back and had a dust bath and sort of a

591
00:25:48,860 --> 00:25:46,130
bit of a claw on the ground and whatnot

592
00:25:51,860 --> 00:25:48,870
shugart so often and then walk back over

593
00:25:55,550 --> 00:25:51,870
to other foxes we're actually sitting in

594
00:25:57,920 --> 00:25:55,560
the first instance got there had a sniff

595
00:26:00,530 --> 00:25:57,930
on the ground lay down again cleaned its

596
00:26:03,230 --> 00:26:00,540
front paws rub its chase against the

597
00:26:06,160 --> 00:26:03,240
grass and sort of laid there for a few

598
00:26:09,760 --> 00:26:06,170
more minutes and then got up and just

599
00:26:13,040 --> 00:26:09,770
trotted back over the hill basically

600
00:26:17,540 --> 00:26:13,050
like City it doesn't really matter what

601
00:26:20,060 --> 00:26:17,550
anybody believes I know what I saw and

602
00:26:23,540 --> 00:26:20,070
it's certainly through my minds our I

603
00:26:24,580 --> 00:26:23,550
into that yes there these things are

604
00:26:27,789 --> 00:26:24,590
about

605
00:26:31,180 --> 00:26:27,799
and I wouldn't disprove really any other

606
00:26:33,549 --> 00:26:31,190
story that i will in the future read or

607
00:26:35,680 --> 00:26:33,559
what have you because I've seen it with

608
00:26:37,210 --> 00:26:35,690
my own eyes and what's your personal

609
00:26:38,799 --> 00:26:37,220
theory do you think it's any kind of a

610
00:26:40,750 --> 00:26:38,809
native cat that we've somehow missed out

611
00:26:43,750 --> 00:26:40,760
on or it's some introduced thing that's

612
00:26:48,669 --> 00:26:43,760
got loose and master bread I would say

613
00:26:51,820 --> 00:26:48,679
and there is one story about this that

614
00:26:54,970 --> 00:26:51,830
they've been released in the past like

615
00:26:58,450 --> 00:26:54,980
said the black leopards so you usually

616
00:26:59,889 --> 00:26:58,460
find those types of animals in forested

617
00:27:02,820 --> 00:26:59,899
areas and it's a recessive gene that

618
00:27:07,330 --> 00:27:02,830
they have which throws into the black

619
00:27:09,669 --> 00:27:07,340
I'd say we've got small populations out

620
00:27:12,039 --> 00:27:09,679
in our forest probably up and down the

621
00:27:13,960 --> 00:27:12,049
East Coast and that's what all the

622
00:27:17,230 --> 00:27:13,970
reports are saying from whatever I read

623
00:27:20,980 --> 00:27:17,240
so yeah I'd say small populations

624
00:27:23,080 --> 00:27:20,990
breeding populations they're very

625
00:27:26,649 --> 00:27:23,090
secretive so not many would people would

626
00:27:29,980 --> 00:27:26,659
see them however they do tend to live

627
00:27:31,720 --> 00:27:29,990
near urban areas which is pretty funny

628
00:27:33,490 --> 00:27:31,730
in itself and they do that all over the

629
00:27:35,320 --> 00:27:33,500
world like I said they've been very

630
00:27:36,490 --> 00:27:35,330
secretive and you wouldn't see it coming

631
00:27:38,830 --> 00:27:36,500
and you certainly wouldn't hear them

632
00:27:41,350 --> 00:27:38,840
coming now it's part of the reason that

633
00:27:44,080 --> 00:27:41,360
they do that because they happened to

634
00:27:45,639 --> 00:27:44,090
like eating foxes and dingoes that they

635
00:27:49,510 --> 00:27:45,649
can get it in Fox's like to hang out

636
00:27:51,159 --> 00:27:49,520
urban areas from what the keepers have

637
00:27:53,260 --> 00:27:51,169
told me about that thing they'll take

638
00:27:57,820 --> 00:27:53,270
any other predator out of the area it's

639
00:28:00,820 --> 00:27:57,830
basically competition for prey although

640
00:28:03,659 --> 00:28:00,830
they do again from what I read they do

641
00:28:06,700 --> 00:28:03,669
have a bit of a taste for k.k needs

642
00:28:09,210 --> 00:28:06,710
being dogs foxes and the like sort of

643
00:28:12,480 --> 00:28:09,220
things so they tend to like to eat them

644
00:28:15,279 --> 00:28:12,490
like that tho ate anything under the

645
00:28:18,580 --> 00:28:15,289
weight size so they're very adaptable

646
00:28:20,860 --> 00:28:18,590
werewolf people can believe what they

647
00:28:24,070 --> 00:28:20,870
want to believe I know what I've seen

648
00:28:28,060 --> 00:28:24,080
and and I know for sure that yes they

649
00:28:30,100 --> 00:28:28,070
are out there now so people can live to

650
00:28:32,950 --> 00:28:30,110
themselves you know make up their own

651
00:28:35,139 --> 00:28:32,960
lines on the phone I have Peter Bowditch

652
00:28:36,970 --> 00:28:35,149
fermat ratbags calm and Peter you've

653
00:28:38,259 --> 00:28:36,980
looked into a few of these sightings of

654
00:28:40,690 --> 00:28:38,269
alien big cats

655
00:28:43,509 --> 00:28:40,700
and unusual things in your area which is

656
00:28:45,310 --> 00:28:43,519
I was on the Blue Mountains and that's

657
00:28:47,979 --> 00:28:45,320
the sort of the center of black cat

658
00:28:49,359 --> 00:28:47,989
fighting in Australia have you heard any

659
00:28:52,779 --> 00:28:49,369
have you heard many in the upper hunter

660
00:28:55,089 --> 00:28:52,789
before now I haven't they tend to be in

661
00:28:58,619 --> 00:28:55,099
Bamiyan Musti must rose valley which is

662
00:29:02,499 --> 00:28:58,629
the one to the sort of north of katoomba

663
00:29:04,299 --> 00:29:02,509
more in there also in let's go but wisco

664
00:29:05,889 --> 00:29:04,309
connects straight up to a hundred allium

665
00:29:08,079 --> 00:29:05,899
in mud is kind of value you go through

666
00:29:09,759 --> 00:29:08,089
just go to get there if there if our in

667
00:29:11,049 --> 00:29:09,769
the Blue Mountains there it's not

668
00:29:13,269 --> 00:29:11,059
impossible from also a better hunter

669
00:29:15,639 --> 00:29:13,279
valley now yeah I think you the the raw

670
00:29:18,339 --> 00:29:15,649
file of my chat with Lee what do you

671
00:29:20,079 --> 00:29:18,349
think obviously he saw something I'm not

672
00:29:21,789 --> 00:29:20,089
saying that he's lying I would never say

673
00:29:24,039 --> 00:29:21,799
that he saw something what he saw I

674
00:29:25,959 --> 00:29:24,049
don't know that problem with all the

675
00:29:28,509 --> 00:29:25,969
evidence for those black cats or large

676
00:29:30,549 --> 00:29:28,519
cats is that it's always a sighting

677
00:29:32,799 --> 00:29:30,559
there doesn't appear to be any other

678
00:29:35,349 --> 00:29:32,809
evidence anybody's found if there was a

679
00:29:37,659 --> 00:29:35,359
lot of breeding population of large

680
00:29:40,629 --> 00:29:37,669
felines living in the bush in Australia

681
00:29:42,099 --> 00:29:40,639
we would have found some hair event

682
00:29:44,440 --> 00:29:42,109
anyone's ever had a domestic cat knows

683
00:29:47,049 --> 00:29:44,450
you're kind of work out here we would

684
00:29:49,989 --> 00:29:47,059
have found feces they would have found

685
00:29:51,159 --> 00:29:49,999
signs of them attacking animals we

686
00:29:53,109 --> 00:29:51,169
haven't found any of those things the

687
00:29:55,149 --> 00:29:53,119
only evidence tends to be Fighting's I

688
00:29:56,680 --> 00:29:55,159
thought that we occasionally we do get

689
00:29:58,719 --> 00:29:56,690
farmers complaining about an unusual

690
00:30:00,310 --> 00:29:58,729
attacks on them animals that could be

691
00:30:03,430 --> 00:30:00,320
caused by something like this that could

692
00:30:04,899 --> 00:30:03,440
be but then again it's I don't know how

693
00:30:06,310 --> 00:30:04,909
well those things are investigated I

694
00:30:08,399 --> 00:30:06,320
think the main problem is that what

695
00:30:11,529 --> 00:30:08,409
first of all Australia has never had any

696
00:30:14,109 --> 00:30:11,539
native cat population this suggests that

697
00:30:15,819 --> 00:30:14,119
if we ever had caps here in Australia

698
00:30:17,979 --> 00:30:15,829
despondent the environment for them to

699
00:30:21,009 --> 00:30:17,989
live in that they've gone extinct years

700
00:30:23,859 --> 00:30:21,019
ago and has anyone given a good effort

701
00:30:26,799 --> 00:30:23,869
to try and find them ever in recorded

702
00:30:28,629 --> 00:30:26,809
time oh yes I have believed in the

703
00:30:30,489 --> 00:30:28,639
government in Victoria that had studied

704
00:30:32,409 --> 00:30:30,499
in the grampians they went looking for

705
00:30:34,089 --> 00:30:32,419
them so there's been a couple of sort of

706
00:30:36,009 --> 00:30:34,099
official investigations done by people

707
00:30:38,109 --> 00:30:36,019
like Department's of Agriculture primary

708
00:30:40,089 --> 00:30:38,119
industry and so forth but they were

709
00:30:41,829 --> 00:30:40,099
actually found but they considerably

710
00:30:43,869 --> 00:30:41,839
satisfactory evidence the existence of

711
00:30:46,209 --> 00:30:43,879
these animals so we probably did the

712
00:30:47,769 --> 00:30:46,219
right thing he didn't own a camera prior

713
00:30:49,060 --> 00:30:47,779
to this and three two three days after

714
00:30:51,310 --> 00:30:49,070
went out and bought one he carries it

715
00:30:51,790 --> 00:30:51,320
with him at all times now yeah now peter

716
00:30:53,920 --> 00:30:51,800
has someone

717
00:30:56,890 --> 00:30:53,930
those investigations you've heard the

718
00:30:59,590 --> 00:30:56,900
the line that that Lee used there I know

719
00:31:01,360 --> 00:30:59,600
what I saw now does that always mean

720
00:31:03,910 --> 00:31:01,370
that definitely what he saw is what he

721
00:31:05,650 --> 00:31:03,920
saw well I think anybody's ever been to

722
00:31:06,610 --> 00:31:05,660
a show put on by a magician knows that

723
00:31:10,510 --> 00:31:06,620
you can see things that aren't

724
00:31:12,550 --> 00:31:10,520
necessarily oh I think that I don't

725
00:31:15,010 --> 00:31:12,560
disbelieve people when they say they see

726
00:31:17,050 --> 00:31:15,020
things but it's just whether they're

727
00:31:18,880 --> 00:31:17,060
what they see is what they think they

728
00:31:20,230 --> 00:31:18,890
see is a different question also the

729
00:31:22,000 --> 00:31:20,240
other point of thing is that people will

730
00:31:24,760 --> 00:31:22,010
say i use skeptics tent believed it sort

731
00:31:28,180 --> 00:31:24,770
of stuff it wasn't violate any rules of

732
00:31:30,340 --> 00:31:28,190
science biology or anything else for us

733
00:31:31,870 --> 00:31:30,350
to find an animal in the Australian bush

734
00:31:33,310 --> 00:31:31,880
that we never found before all we would

735
00:31:35,380 --> 00:31:33,320
say is now we know something that we

736
00:31:38,710 --> 00:31:35,390
didn't know before it's just that in the

737
00:31:41,170 --> 00:31:38,720
case of Black Panthers the evidence

738
00:31:43,480 --> 00:31:41,180
isn't there or there's not sufficient

739
00:31:45,430 --> 00:31:43,490
evidence to be able to say yes these

740
00:31:47,290 --> 00:31:45,440
things actually exist so what if you

741
00:31:49,740 --> 00:31:47,300
have a lot of people seeing a similar

742
00:31:52,360 --> 00:31:49,750
thing doesn't that mean something I

743
00:31:54,430 --> 00:31:52,370
think it does in which case you

744
00:31:55,660 --> 00:31:54,440
investigate it and remove investigations

745
00:31:57,550 --> 00:31:55,670
have been done they haven't been able to

746
00:31:59,800 --> 00:31:57,560
find any further evidence beyond the

747
00:32:01,750 --> 00:31:59,810
sightings there's also two on a gallops

748
00:32:03,660 --> 00:32:01,760
there are some areas as a loon let's go

749
00:32:06,970 --> 00:32:03,670
there's a little bit of an industry in

750
00:32:08,350 --> 00:32:06,980
Panther sightings as a tourist thing if

751
00:32:10,360 --> 00:32:08,360
these things are so difficult is fine

752
00:32:11,320 --> 00:32:10,370
why would you be in a hurry to go there

753
00:32:12,610 --> 00:32:11,330
to try and see one because they're

754
00:32:15,010 --> 00:32:12,620
pretty hard to find in the first place

755
00:32:16,810 --> 00:32:15,020
even if they were there I think it's a

756
00:32:18,760 --> 00:32:16,820
publicity for the town type of thing

757
00:32:20,650 --> 00:32:18,770
your eyes people who've never been there

758
00:32:24,150 --> 00:32:20,660
what would be the number one tourist

759
00:32:26,620 --> 00:32:24,160
site in Scotland they'll say lock next

760
00:32:28,180 --> 00:32:26,630
but your Loch Ness is a place that if it

761
00:32:29,710 --> 00:32:28,190
doesn't have a monster it should have

762
00:32:31,420 --> 00:32:29,720
one because it looks like it that's

763
00:32:32,890 --> 00:32:31,430
right it should have one yes I think

764
00:32:36,610 --> 00:32:32,900
that's part of it into we should have

765
00:32:37,990 --> 00:32:36,620
wild animals in the bush and we actually

766
00:32:39,990 --> 00:32:38,000
have all these gentle animals in

767
00:32:43,960 --> 00:32:40,000
Australia that we have kangaroos and

768
00:32:45,700 --> 00:32:43,970
koalas we I think we would like a bit of

769
00:32:47,770 --> 00:32:45,710
mythology would like some savage beast

770
00:32:50,110 --> 00:32:47,780
out there that which we could fear when

771
00:32:51,520 --> 00:32:50,120
we went walk through the bush well look

772
00:32:53,710 --> 00:32:51,530
is so I hopefully we'll get some tests

773
00:32:55,210 --> 00:32:53,720
of all evidence in one of these days I'm

774
00:32:56,680 --> 00:32:55,220
you know it might even be from let's go

775
00:32:58,450 --> 00:32:56,690
and then you'll smile a bit another side

776
00:33:00,940 --> 00:32:58,460
of your face won't Peter oh it certainly

777
00:33:02,500 --> 00:33:00,950
would but one of the problems we got up

778
00:33:05,320 --> 00:33:02,510
here is one of the most proponents of

779
00:33:07,150 --> 00:33:05,330
the list of a panther also

780
00:33:08,980 --> 00:33:07,160
has another website we talks about

781
00:33:10,990 --> 00:33:08,990
secret underground bases in the blue

782
00:33:13,000 --> 00:33:11,000
mountains of restoring lutherie aircraft

783
00:33:15,040 --> 00:33:13,010
it can zoom out world conquest for some

784
00:33:17,980 --> 00:33:15,050
Muslims so this has to be some real

785
00:33:19,600 --> 00:33:17,990
wackos discussing it that now your net

786
00:33:21,310 --> 00:33:19,610
nado p just cuz someone talks about

787
00:33:23,500 --> 00:33:21,320
secret military bases doesn't mean that

788
00:33:25,690 --> 00:33:23,510
there can't be a lien big cats I suppose

789
00:33:27,550 --> 00:33:25,700
that truck yes of course yeah I'd oh I

790
00:33:29,680 --> 00:33:27,560
see oh I would love to hear about it up

791
00:33:31,420 --> 00:33:29,690
here but at the moment I think it's

792
00:33:34,330 --> 00:33:31,430
unlike our people I don't know what lose

793
00:33:36,220 --> 00:33:34,340
saw he certainly saw something I just

794
00:33:37,620 --> 00:33:36,230
somehow other day off but up in the

795
00:33:41,620 --> 00:33:37,630
Hunter Valley or down here there's this

796
00:33:43,030 --> 00:33:41,630
brooding population of cats which I no

797
00:33:44,860 --> 00:33:43,040
wonder half times the size of Alsatian

798
00:33:46,330 --> 00:33:44,870
dogs well one of these days I hope we

799
00:33:48,460 --> 00:33:46,340
can get some evidence one way or the

800
00:34:04,639 --> 00:33:48,470
other thank you Peter Peter Budaj from

801
00:34:10,919 --> 00:34:08,430
hi this is scary papi i am ross Blocher

802
00:34:14,369 --> 00:34:10,929
okay Ross hey we're from a podcast

803
00:34:16,079 --> 00:34:14,379
called oh no Ross and Carrie we find out

804
00:34:17,490 --> 00:34:16,089
what happens when you show up and ask

805
00:34:19,740 --> 00:34:17,500
questions we've hung out with the

806
00:34:22,289 --> 00:34:19,750
caballes the Mormons we've gone and

807
00:34:24,720 --> 00:34:22,299
gotten ear candle gone to the Sikhs we

808
00:34:26,369 --> 00:34:24,730
show up so you don't have to so find out

809
00:34:28,470 --> 00:34:26,379
where we're going next we'll even have

810
00:34:30,869 --> 00:34:28,480
special episodes where we have famous

811
00:34:32,879 --> 00:34:30,879
guests like Brian Dalton from mr. deity

812
00:34:34,859 --> 00:34:32,889
you heard that awesome theme music he

813
00:34:39,059 --> 00:34:34,869
wrote that you should come visit us at

814
00:34:42,269 --> 00:34:39,069
Oh No podcast.com or facebook.com slash

815
00:34:46,139 --> 00:34:42,279
on rack what the hell's on a cross Oh in

816
00:34:52,169 --> 00:34:46,149
RAC Oh Oh No Ross and Carrie that's our

817
00:34:55,139 --> 00:34:52,179
show that's a smart come join us join us

818
00:34:59,829 --> 00:34:55,149
now for drinking skeptically in the

819
00:35:07,460 --> 00:35:05,960
yeah and it's a very good evening from

820
00:35:11,180 --> 00:35:07,470
our favorite club down the end of the

821
00:35:13,339 --> 00:35:11,190
street dr. AG hello Richard hello you've

822
00:35:15,260 --> 00:35:13,349
just finished your first course and your

823
00:35:17,809 --> 00:35:15,270
second course seems to be a little bowl

824
00:35:21,380 --> 00:35:17,819
full of chilies and marinated in soy

825
00:35:23,120 --> 00:35:21,390
sauce yum it's very hot very good that

826
00:35:25,039 --> 00:35:23,130
is a very good evening bastard sheep

827
00:35:27,620 --> 00:35:25,049
g'day g'day hey where's the little sheep

828
00:35:29,960 --> 00:35:27,630
I sitting in the car should broaden guys

829
00:35:31,760 --> 00:35:29,970
in the car yeah I protected my camera

830
00:35:34,160 --> 00:35:31,770
Roland well it's a very small but Mary

831
00:35:36,380 --> 00:35:34,170
bad here tonight in the think tank and

832
00:35:39,500 --> 00:35:36,390
now in fact dr. H is just waiting on her

833
00:35:41,870 --> 00:35:39,510
her second course quite a few things to

834
00:35:45,020 --> 00:35:41,880
get through tonight topics of the week

835
00:35:48,170 --> 00:35:45,030
one might say I start with some good

836
00:35:49,880 --> 00:35:48,180
news dr. H E and that was a couple of

837
00:35:52,010 --> 00:35:49,890
weeks ago you reported about the

838
00:35:55,690 --> 00:35:52,020
government looking into cutting the

839
00:35:58,280 --> 00:35:55,700
subsidies certain alternative therapies

840
00:36:00,650 --> 00:35:58,290
yes well it's actually passed Parliament

841
00:36:03,589 --> 00:36:00,660
now so the next step is the chief

842
00:36:05,270 --> 00:36:03,599
medical officer of Australia will go and

843
00:36:08,150 --> 00:36:05,280
look at the evidence for some of the

844
00:36:09,770 --> 00:36:08,160
therapies that are currently under the

845
00:36:12,170 --> 00:36:09,780
rebate system by the Australian

846
00:36:15,079 --> 00:36:12,180
Government there's been a couple of

847
00:36:16,640 --> 00:36:15,089
conflicting reports actually and some of

848
00:36:21,770 --> 00:36:16,650
them they mention in the homeopathy

849
00:36:25,309 --> 00:36:21,780
iridology aromatherapy roll thing some

850
00:36:26,809 --> 00:36:25,319
really quite sort of fringe stuff but in

851
00:36:28,490 --> 00:36:26,819
some recent reports I've seen that that

852
00:36:30,620 --> 00:36:28,500
top a--they is now under the microscope

853
00:36:33,319 --> 00:36:30,630
as well I didn't know that yeah well

854
00:36:36,609 --> 00:36:33,329
roses me yeah because they specifically

855
00:36:39,289 --> 00:36:36,619
excluded chiropractic and acupuncture

856
00:36:40,789 --> 00:36:39,299
but now they're putting us in a couple

857
00:36:42,079 --> 00:36:40,799
of reports and that these haven't come

858
00:36:45,140 --> 00:36:42,089
directly from the government these are

859
00:36:46,640 --> 00:36:45,150
generous reporting on the story but I've

860
00:36:48,890 --> 00:36:46,650
started to see you know tropi the--

861
00:36:53,720 --> 00:36:48,900
popping up as one of the things i might

862
00:36:55,700 --> 00:36:53,730
not fund any longer that's a broad term

863
00:36:57,740 --> 00:36:55,710
though isn't it well yeah I suppose but

864
00:36:59,390 --> 00:36:57,750
I suppose the way that they would

865
00:37:02,480 --> 00:36:59,400
regulate it is if you go to see a

866
00:37:04,370 --> 00:37:02,490
naturopath explicitly and it doesn't

867
00:37:06,800 --> 00:37:04,380
matter what treatment they give you that

868
00:37:10,130 --> 00:37:06,810
visit will not be rebated by the guy

869
00:37:12,310 --> 00:37:10,140
anymore so I think it looks like that

870
00:37:14,500 --> 00:37:12,320
that's now in the firing line as well

871
00:37:18,530 --> 00:37:14,510
it's really interesting though because

872
00:37:20,270 --> 00:37:18,540
the reaction from the cam peeps hasn't

873
00:37:23,600 --> 00:37:20,280
there hasn't been a reaction really

874
00:37:25,970 --> 00:37:23,610
didn't I see them complaining about it

875
00:37:28,610 --> 00:37:25,980
was just along the same lines that they

876
00:37:30,920 --> 00:37:28,620
have to now get an expert to certify

877
00:37:32,480 --> 00:37:30,930
their various modalities yeah well

878
00:37:34,850 --> 00:37:32,490
that's another thats something different

879
00:37:36,770 --> 00:37:34,860
that happened a couple of weeks before

880
00:37:38,720 --> 00:37:36,780
the budget announcement so there's sort

881
00:37:42,140 --> 00:37:38,730
of been a bit of a a government

882
00:37:44,480 --> 00:37:42,150
onslaught lately there has been some

883
00:37:47,060 --> 00:37:44,490
sort of limited responses that i've seen

884
00:37:50,330 --> 00:37:47,070
on places like the AV and facebook page

885
00:37:52,730 --> 00:37:50,340
but in terms of i know that the for

886
00:37:54,470 --> 00:37:52,740
example with the expert thing the

887
00:37:58,190 --> 00:37:54,480
complementary health care councils come

888
00:38:00,170 --> 00:37:58,200
out screaming about that but just in

889
00:38:02,390 --> 00:38:00,180
general and the sort of spokespeople for

890
00:38:03,860 --> 00:38:02,400
cam that i would expect would come out

891
00:38:05,720 --> 00:38:03,870
and blog about it or write articles

892
00:38:07,550 --> 00:38:05,730
about it have been conspicuous by their

893
00:38:09,380 --> 00:38:07,560
absence yeah well i first heard bells

894
00:38:12,200 --> 00:38:09,390
expect me to be in the news for weeks

895
00:38:13,910 --> 00:38:12,210
then this hasn't been any articles about

896
00:38:16,250 --> 00:38:13,920
it other than the initial announcements

897
00:38:18,410 --> 00:38:16,260
or something like eight ten years ago

898
00:38:20,630 --> 00:38:18,420
eight years ago i'm guessing I've got

899
00:38:22,580 --> 00:38:20,640
their files back home the minister of

900
00:38:26,630 --> 00:38:22,590
health and new south wales announced a

901
00:38:28,100 --> 00:38:26,640
big crackdown on to quack devices and i

902
00:38:29,540 --> 00:38:28,110
was there in parliament house when he

903
00:38:32,090 --> 00:38:29,550
announced that it was all very exciting

904
00:38:35,270 --> 00:38:32,100
we thought you beauty and unfortunately

905
00:38:37,130 --> 00:38:35,280
it was all came to nothing because the

906
00:38:39,860 --> 00:38:37,140
alternative crowd got in there and

907
00:38:42,500 --> 00:38:39,870
became advisers on this panel so maybe

908
00:38:43,670 --> 00:38:42,510
they're planning something yeah well i

909
00:38:45,320 --> 00:38:43,680
don't think they can in this case

910
00:38:48,350 --> 00:38:45,330
because it's been assigned to the chief

911
00:38:50,090 --> 00:38:48,360
medical officer and as as far as I

912
00:38:53,480 --> 00:38:50,100
haven't seen anything to indicate that

913
00:38:55,610 --> 00:38:53,490
he's employing advisors to look at that

914
00:38:58,280 --> 00:38:55,620
but I presume he's going to have to get

915
00:38:59,690 --> 00:38:58,290
somebody to help him because I mean it's

916
00:39:02,510 --> 00:38:59,700
sort of you've fallen under the radar

917
00:39:04,510 --> 00:39:02,520
and also the details are scant as well I

918
00:39:08,630 --> 00:39:04,520
haven't been able to find any details

919
00:39:10,520 --> 00:39:08,640
but according to what I can see he is

920
00:39:11,500 --> 00:39:10,530
going to look at literature and look for

921
00:39:14,820 --> 00:39:11,510
evidence

922
00:39:20,440 --> 00:39:14,830
give you choice I bring some just mama

923
00:39:22,890 --> 00:39:20,450
thank you now we're going to break a

924
00:39:26,710 --> 00:39:22,900
dear listener because you probably just

925
00:39:29,050 --> 00:39:26,720
have detected from that Rachel's dinner

926
00:39:31,150 --> 00:39:29,060
has arrived what is it right Carrie

927
00:39:33,790 --> 00:39:31,160
chicken yum wow that looks fabulous

928
00:39:35,950 --> 00:39:33,800
smells really good can you smell it just

929
00:39:38,410 --> 00:39:35,960
meant oh yeah oh it does feels like

930
00:39:40,480 --> 00:39:38,420
Cannes mustard powder curry chicken with

931
00:39:43,630 --> 00:39:40,490
vegetables a nice bowl of rice and

932
00:39:45,820 --> 00:39:43,640
chilies in soy sauce dear listener we're

933
00:39:50,980 --> 00:39:45,830
going to break for a second and let dr.

934
00:39:52,600 --> 00:39:50,990
rachy heaven on and we're back now I

935
00:39:55,330 --> 00:39:52,610
know you didn't miss anything listener

936
00:39:57,790 --> 00:39:55,340
but we watched Rachel devour almost a

937
00:40:01,450 --> 00:39:57,800
whole plate of chicken I'm still going

938
00:40:03,940 --> 00:40:01,460
but we'll let you out will let you carry

939
00:40:06,010 --> 00:40:03,950
on and while we're letting you carry on

940
00:40:08,980 --> 00:40:06,020
I'm more good news more good news of

941
00:40:11,290 --> 00:40:08,990
course for Sydneysiders with skeptic

942
00:40:13,060 --> 00:40:11,300
camp just a week away and I can't wait

943
00:40:16,300 --> 00:40:13,070
to be there I know we can get some

944
00:40:18,280 --> 00:40:16,310
terrific reports this time around she be

945
00:40:19,780 --> 00:40:18,290
looking forward to skeptic app can't

946
00:40:21,670 --> 00:40:19,790
wait for it's going to be awesome I

947
00:40:24,430 --> 00:40:21,680
Filosa don't know what skipped camp is

948
00:40:26,200 --> 00:40:24,440
anyway it's busy you've got all those

949
00:40:28,540 --> 00:40:26,210
big scheduled conferences to go there to

950
00:40:30,100 --> 00:40:28,550
hear the beat names talk but the little

951
00:40:32,050 --> 00:40:30,110
people they may have some brilliant

952
00:40:33,700 --> 00:40:32,060
ideas as well you just haven't heard of

953
00:40:35,230 --> 00:40:33,710
them and that's the point of skeptic

954
00:40:37,690 --> 00:40:35,240
camp for the little people that nobody

955
00:40:42,340 --> 00:40:37,700
is to come along give their ten minutes

956
00:40:43,870 --> 00:40:42,350
be heard come popular possibly so every

957
00:40:45,940 --> 00:40:43,880
single person in attendance if you

958
00:40:47,890 --> 00:40:45,950
haven't been before pretty much have to

959
00:40:50,470 --> 00:40:47,900
give a talk so I'm actually get prepared

960
00:40:53,460 --> 00:40:50,480
I bring it along um so yeah that's on

961
00:40:55,480 --> 00:40:53,470
the twenty-sixth of our May at UTS

962
00:40:57,580 --> 00:40:55,490
tickets are free if you just go to

963
00:40:59,620 --> 00:40:57,590
eventbrite and look for skip to camp

964
00:41:01,930 --> 00:40:59,630
Sydney 2012 should be able to find it

965
00:41:04,900 --> 00:41:01,940
and there's also cupcake camp happening

966
00:41:06,520 --> 00:41:04,910
so if you can bake bake where you can

967
00:41:08,440 --> 00:41:06,530
bring the best thing along that you can

968
00:41:10,150 --> 00:41:08,450
have a little sign saying what it is

969
00:41:13,390 --> 00:41:10,160
anything special battle whether it's

970
00:41:15,340 --> 00:41:13,400
vegan or vegetarian all there are some

971
00:41:16,870 --> 00:41:15,350
great cup yes there last year I seem to

972
00:41:18,460 --> 00:41:16,880
remember and I'm delighted to say that

973
00:41:20,620 --> 00:41:18,470
once again the Australian skeptics

974
00:41:22,750 --> 00:41:20,630
Educational Foundation is sponsoring

975
00:41:23,420 --> 00:41:22,760
skeptic camp this year so when you turn

976
00:41:26,089 --> 00:41:23,430
up

977
00:41:28,069 --> 00:41:26,099
you can meet a lot of the gang a lot of

978
00:41:29,210 --> 00:41:28,079
the committee from Australian skeptics I

979
00:41:31,040 --> 00:41:29,220
think we'll have a table all have

980
00:41:33,319 --> 00:41:31,050
something there and we'll we'll say

981
00:41:36,770 --> 00:41:33,329
hello to everybody looking forward to

982
00:41:41,299 --> 00:41:36,780
skip the camp in Sydney now let's

983
00:41:42,980 --> 00:41:41,309
quickly talk about a certain DVD and

984
00:41:46,010 --> 00:41:42,990
video that's come to our attention just

985
00:41:50,420 --> 00:41:46,020
lately it's called one answer to cancer

986
00:41:53,000 --> 00:41:50,430
dr. 18 I have a copy of the video right

987
00:41:56,599 --> 00:41:53,010
there for your enjoyment I haven't seen

988
00:41:59,299 --> 00:41:56,609
it you've actually watched some of it I

989
00:42:00,710 --> 00:41:59,309
years I did actually watch some of it

990
00:42:02,150 --> 00:42:00,720
but now so you mean to tell me that

991
00:42:04,520 --> 00:42:02,160
there's only one type of cancer

992
00:42:06,079 --> 00:42:04,530
apparently so now there's one answer

993
00:42:08,299 --> 00:42:06,089
there's my Lance that's what an answer

994
00:42:11,450 --> 00:42:08,309
for the dozens and hundreds of different

995
00:42:13,579 --> 00:42:11,460
types now this is a video which I'm sad

996
00:42:15,319 --> 00:42:13,589
to say is actually available on YouTube

997
00:42:17,000 --> 00:42:15,329
I don't encourage people to watch it but

998
00:42:18,549 --> 00:42:17,010
well for educational purposes of

999
00:42:20,599 --> 00:42:18,559
skeptics know what they're talking about

1000
00:42:22,640 --> 00:42:20,609
basically it's saying that there's this

1001
00:42:25,220 --> 00:42:22,650
magical cream this substance you can put

1002
00:42:27,349 --> 00:42:25,230
on smear on cancers and wow look at that

1003
00:42:29,329 --> 00:42:27,359
they sort of dissolve away and just fall

1004
00:42:31,700 --> 00:42:29,339
off it's just such as your face the big

1005
00:42:33,680 --> 00:42:31,710
black secret sauce isn't it what's the

1006
00:42:36,319 --> 00:42:33,690
secret sauce yeah what this is this

1007
00:42:39,500 --> 00:42:36,329
stuff is called blacks Sal visit yeah

1008
00:42:40,970 --> 00:42:39,510
it's called black selves it's a it's

1009
00:42:42,680 --> 00:42:40,980
like a cream that you can just you can

1010
00:42:44,390 --> 00:42:42,690
make it up yourself there's a recipe

1011
00:42:46,370 --> 00:42:44,400
they'll be recipes all over the Internet

1012
00:42:48,589 --> 00:42:46,380
I've actually I'm held some of it and

1013
00:42:50,720 --> 00:42:48,599
looked at it and sort of wafting the

1014
00:42:53,870 --> 00:42:50,730
smell of it into my nose because it's

1015
00:42:56,210 --> 00:42:53,880
it's very accurate and basically what it

1016
00:42:58,670 --> 00:42:56,220
does is it burns your skin off yeah so

1017
00:43:01,130 --> 00:42:58,680
people that promote it claimed that it

1018
00:43:04,010 --> 00:43:01,140
selectively selects out the cancer cells

1019
00:43:06,829 --> 00:43:04,020
and only kills them it will just burn

1020
00:43:09,559 --> 00:43:06,839
your face off well when I was watching

1021
00:43:12,130 --> 00:43:09,569
this this video its testimonial after

1022
00:43:15,349 --> 00:43:12,140
testimonial after testimonial and and

1023
00:43:18,349 --> 00:43:15,359
rants about being repressed knowledge

1024
00:43:20,150 --> 00:43:18,359
and Big Pharma conspiracy I mean these

1025
00:43:23,599 --> 00:43:20,160
do all over the internet and it's not

1026
00:43:25,460 --> 00:43:23,609
achieving I was that being replaced it's

1027
00:43:26,839 --> 00:43:25,470
not being repressed because a certain

1028
00:43:29,079 --> 00:43:26,849
Meryl Dory from the Australian

1029
00:43:32,359 --> 00:43:29,089
vaccination network was was selling this

1030
00:43:32,690 --> 00:43:32,369
hideous video on the website and they

1031
00:43:35,120 --> 00:43:32,700
were

1032
00:43:38,599 --> 00:43:35,130
to take it down in dr. aj yeah because

1033
00:43:41,510 --> 00:43:38,609
i'm the TGA recently issued a warning

1034
00:43:43,640 --> 00:43:41,520
about black self because if you have a

1035
00:43:45,740 --> 00:43:43,650
look at quack watch Stephen Barrett's

1036
00:43:49,160 --> 00:43:45,750
website has quite a detailed entry about

1037
00:43:51,290 --> 00:43:49,170
black self and his pick some extreme

1038
00:43:53,060 --> 00:43:51,300
cases but they it does happen that

1039
00:43:55,670 --> 00:43:53,070
actually people have been holding their

1040
00:43:57,890 --> 00:43:55,680
faces there's one woman whose nose burnt

1041
00:43:59,390 --> 00:43:57,900
off I see the picture horrible yeah the

1042
00:44:01,490 --> 00:43:59,400
front of her her nose and her cheeks

1043
00:44:04,640 --> 00:44:01,500
burnt off someone else actually put an

1044
00:44:06,050 --> 00:44:04,650
entire a hole through their nostril but

1045
00:44:07,970 --> 00:44:06,060
because they applied it to their nostril

1046
00:44:10,370 --> 00:44:07,980
for some sort of cancer it's interesting

1047
00:44:13,430 --> 00:44:10,380
us on this this video there are people

1048
00:44:15,890 --> 00:44:13,440
there saying I had dis cancer on my nose

1049
00:44:17,630 --> 00:44:15,900
and I used this stuff yeah yeah but the

1050
00:44:19,190 --> 00:44:17,640
trouble is he I mean it's basically like

1051
00:44:20,690 --> 00:44:19,200
putting acid on your skin it's just kind

1052
00:44:22,550 --> 00:44:20,700
of course it'll burn off the cancer but

1053
00:44:25,940 --> 00:44:22,560
it'll burn off anything else as well I

1054
00:44:29,319 --> 00:44:25,950
mean it's dangerous and it's stupid so

1055
00:44:31,520 --> 00:44:29,329
um Merrill was selling on her website

1056
00:44:33,800 --> 00:44:31,530
which is interesting anyway because it's

1057
00:44:34,910 --> 00:44:33,810
available all over the net for free so

1058
00:44:38,030 --> 00:44:34,920
the fact that she's selling it for

1059
00:44:39,890 --> 00:44:38,040
twenty dollars is questionable anyway so

1060
00:44:43,730 --> 00:44:39,900
the only free product that she sells for

1061
00:44:46,640 --> 00:44:43,740
thirty forty dollars no in fact a poster

1062
00:44:48,980 --> 00:44:46,650
on the stock the avian page posted about

1063
00:44:50,150 --> 00:44:48,990
20 products just the other day that she

1064
00:44:53,150 --> 00:44:50,160
sells that you can get for free

1065
00:44:55,550 --> 00:44:53,160
elsewhere so somebody pointed out that

1066
00:44:57,260 --> 00:44:55,560
that was unfair to highlight that about

1067
00:44:59,809 --> 00:44:57,270
what Merrill's doing and said that Brian

1068
00:45:03,079 --> 00:44:59,819
Dunning also gives away there be dragons

1069
00:45:04,460 --> 00:45:03,089
for free or you can buy the DVD yeah but

1070
00:45:06,680 --> 00:45:04,470
then someone made the point that he does

1071
00:45:08,030 --> 00:45:06,690
that on the same page so he gives you

1072
00:45:09,470 --> 00:45:08,040
the option to buy it or he gives you the

1073
00:45:11,150 --> 00:45:09,480
option to get it for free yeah if you

1074
00:45:13,099 --> 00:45:11,160
everyone's out they just paying for the

1075
00:45:15,380 --> 00:45:13,109
production of the CD absolutely vdi

1076
00:45:16,910 --> 00:45:15,390
having it sent out whereas Meryl she

1077
00:45:19,910 --> 00:45:16,920
gets it from the free source and then

1078
00:45:22,940 --> 00:45:19,920
sells it on so she actually charged

1079
00:45:24,650 --> 00:45:22,950
postage is false so yeah anyway so the

1080
00:45:27,589 --> 00:45:24,660
TGA told her that she had to stop

1081
00:45:29,930 --> 00:45:27,599
selling it and of course she went mental

1082
00:45:32,480 --> 00:45:29,940
and said that was repression of her

1083
00:45:34,640 --> 00:45:32,490
rights and you know the government the

1084
00:45:37,190 --> 00:45:34,650
big big government is you know coming

1085
00:45:38,450 --> 00:45:37,200
down and free speech etc etc she really

1086
00:45:40,460 --> 00:45:38,460
had a round of it I'll she absolutely

1087
00:45:42,160 --> 00:45:40,470
did and I'll she blamed Australian

1088
00:45:43,990 --> 00:45:42,170
skeptics and si bien

1089
00:45:46,410 --> 00:45:44,000
and I'm just like to point out that

1090
00:45:49,270 --> 00:45:46,420
apparently the complaint was anonymous

1091
00:45:52,000 --> 00:45:49,280
so there's no indication who actually

1092
00:45:54,940 --> 00:45:52,010
put a complaint into the TGA about her

1093
00:45:59,530 --> 00:45:54,950
selling it wasn't me well no wasn't me I

1094
00:46:02,350 --> 00:45:59,540
don't know if it was she p um but she

1095
00:46:04,720 --> 00:46:02,360
then proceeded to advertise it for sale

1096
00:46:10,840 --> 00:46:04,730
on her Facebook page well I've got the

1097
00:46:12,520 --> 00:46:10,850
link right here and no Chuck no Chuck in

1098
00:46:15,100 --> 00:46:12,530
fact Twitter this only a little while

1099
00:46:17,860 --> 00:46:15,110
ago and this is a posting by the

1100
00:46:20,950 --> 00:46:17,870
Australian vaccination network if anyone

1101
00:46:23,470 --> 00:46:20,960
would like to buy one of the last copies

1102
00:46:26,140 --> 00:46:23,480
of the DVD one answer to cancer that the

1103
00:46:28,210 --> 00:46:26,150
avian has in stock please call us on

1104
00:46:30,820 --> 00:46:28,220
yada yada yada yada during business

1105
00:46:32,860 --> 00:46:30,830
hours the TGA can stop us from listening

1106
00:46:35,110 --> 00:46:32,870
it on our website but they haven't yet

1107
00:46:38,260 --> 00:46:35,120
stopped us from carrying it or selling

1108
00:46:42,430 --> 00:46:38,270
it full stop book burning anyone merrell

1109
00:46:46,510 --> 00:46:42,440
dory well she does know about Godwin's

1110
00:46:48,040 --> 00:46:46,520
law right I don't know she she breaks it

1111
00:46:50,890 --> 00:46:48,050
all the time or in that in whatever

1112
00:46:53,380 --> 00:46:50,900
invokes it all the time but there's now

1113
00:46:54,940 --> 00:46:53,390
a rumor going around Twitter that in

1114
00:46:56,350 --> 00:46:54,950
fact she's charging twenty dollars four

1115
00:46:57,910 --> 00:46:56,360
and five dollars postage and there's a

1116
00:47:00,580 --> 00:46:57,920
rumor that she's actually just sending

1117
00:47:02,530 --> 00:47:00,590
people a link to the YouTube well I just

1118
00:47:06,040 --> 00:47:02,540
a room at the rubin I don't know who

1119
00:47:08,860 --> 00:47:06,050
Vinson true yeah but she's got a little

1120
00:47:10,420 --> 00:47:08,870
bit cranky about that and saying that um

1121
00:47:12,400 --> 00:47:10,430
natural therapists are coming under fire

1122
00:47:15,280 --> 00:47:12,410
from the government from everywhere and

1123
00:47:17,800 --> 00:47:15,290
in fact she's she's having a meeting I

1124
00:47:22,090 --> 00:47:17,810
think next week next Tuesday or

1125
00:47:23,380 --> 00:47:22,100
Wednesday where she's going to have a

1126
00:47:26,320 --> 00:47:23,390
conference call with whoever's

1127
00:47:27,640 --> 00:47:26,330
interested to form a lay a plan to put

1128
00:47:29,140 --> 00:47:27,650
together a lobby group to lobby the

1129
00:47:32,650 --> 00:47:29,150
government because they're taking away

1130
00:47:35,710 --> 00:47:32,660
her rights as she commented about the

1131
00:47:37,570 --> 00:47:35,720
private health rebates and said the

1132
00:47:41,040 --> 00:47:37,580
government's taking away our access to

1133
00:47:43,540 --> 00:47:41,050
natural therapies well the thing is

1134
00:47:45,370 --> 00:47:43,550
Meryl is a little bit like a cult leader

1135
00:47:47,860 --> 00:47:45,380
in a way because what she likes to do is

1136
00:47:50,680 --> 00:47:47,870
scare manga her bunch of acolytes or

1137
00:47:52,240 --> 00:47:50,690
followers into a frenzy such that they

1138
00:47:54,240 --> 00:47:52,250
get to a point where then she can then

1139
00:47:56,310 --> 00:47:54,250
say give me some money

1140
00:48:00,420 --> 00:47:56,320
she is a pattern that she does every

1141
00:48:02,040 --> 00:48:00,430
time so in fact she misrepresented that

1142
00:48:03,840 --> 00:48:02,050
because the government is not stopping

1143
00:48:05,550 --> 00:48:03,850
people from accessing natural therapies

1144
00:48:07,140 --> 00:48:05,560
you'll still be able to go to your

1145
00:48:09,330 --> 00:48:07,150
homeopath anniera dollar just in your

1146
00:48:10,710 --> 00:48:09,340
role fur but you just won't get money

1147
00:48:13,470 --> 00:48:10,720
back from the government no one's

1148
00:48:15,390 --> 00:48:13,480
stopping you no one's banning it but of

1149
00:48:17,610 --> 00:48:15,400
course her followers don't bother to do

1150
00:48:20,520 --> 00:48:17,620
their own research in most cases so now

1151
00:48:21,900 --> 00:48:20,530
they're all being told that Australians

1152
00:48:24,390 --> 00:48:21,910
won't have access to natural therapies

1153
00:48:26,430 --> 00:48:24,400
anymore so she's having some sort of

1154
00:48:27,540 --> 00:48:26,440
conference call next week to to work

1155
00:48:30,120 --> 00:48:27,550
something out and I wouldn't be

1156
00:48:32,340 --> 00:48:30,130
surprised as a result of that she comes

1157
00:48:34,710 --> 00:48:32,350
out and says I need donations so I can

1158
00:48:37,290 --> 00:48:34,720
go to Canberra to meet with the health

1159
00:48:39,810 --> 00:48:37,300
minister I've got to tell you a story

1160
00:48:41,880 --> 00:48:39,820
though Richard with this is just so

1161
00:48:43,860 --> 00:48:41,890
funny it's another example of her

1162
00:48:47,010 --> 00:48:43,870
whipping up her followers into a frenzy

1163
00:48:49,860 --> 00:48:47,020
it was um the budget came out last

1164
00:48:53,730 --> 00:48:49,870
Tuesday there was some discussion about

1165
00:48:55,440 --> 00:48:53,740
how they used to be a we're currently in

1166
00:48:58,230 --> 00:48:55,450
this country in some states we have a

1167
00:49:00,390 --> 00:48:58,240
free booster for whooping cough for

1168
00:49:02,100 --> 00:49:00,400
parents and carers you know because

1169
00:49:03,930 --> 00:49:02,110
we're in an epidemic in most of the

1170
00:49:05,280 --> 00:49:03,940
country if you're a carer or a new

1171
00:49:07,560 --> 00:49:05,290
parent are you going to be around young

1172
00:49:09,090 --> 00:49:07,570
babies that are not fully vaccinated the

1173
00:49:13,050 --> 00:49:09,100
government would give you a free booster

1174
00:49:15,060 --> 00:49:13,060
shot for adults now they've decided

1175
00:49:16,590 --> 00:49:15,070
recently or at least Victoria has

1176
00:49:19,770 --> 00:49:16,600
decided recently that they're not going

1177
00:49:20,910 --> 00:49:19,780
to fund that after july 2012 so there

1178
00:49:24,030 --> 00:49:20,920
was a whole lot of discussion about

1179
00:49:26,070 --> 00:49:24,040
whether that was a good idea in fact it

1180
00:49:28,380 --> 00:49:26,080
turns out that we think they may have

1181
00:49:31,200 --> 00:49:28,390
jumped a gun because the pharmaceutical

1182
00:49:33,320 --> 00:49:31,210
Benefits advisory committee who are the

1183
00:49:37,350 --> 00:49:33,330
people that advise on on health

1184
00:49:39,120 --> 00:49:37,360
interventions found some evidence to

1185
00:49:41,640 --> 00:49:39,130
suggest that they weren't sure if it was

1186
00:49:45,000 --> 00:49:41,650
economically viable but the government

1187
00:49:47,190 --> 00:49:45,010
interpreted that as it doesn't work so

1188
00:49:48,030 --> 00:49:47,200
before they'd actually really thought

1189
00:49:49,890 --> 00:49:48,040
about it and looked at the evidence

1190
00:49:51,030 --> 00:49:49,900
poppy they said it well we don't think

1191
00:49:52,950 --> 00:49:51,040
it works so we're stopping it all

1192
00:49:55,170 --> 00:49:52,960
together so in fact there's a lot of

1193
00:49:57,000 --> 00:49:55,180
discussion now going on between health

1194
00:49:58,260 --> 00:49:57,010
professionals and the government about

1195
00:50:00,240 --> 00:49:58,270
whether that was the right decision but

1196
00:50:01,130 --> 00:50:00,250
beside from that the health minister

1197
00:50:03,650 --> 00:50:01,140
came out on

1198
00:50:06,380 --> 00:50:03,660
day and was talking about that

1199
00:50:09,470 --> 00:50:06,390
particular decision and also that the

1200
00:50:10,880 --> 00:50:09,480
government is now linking family benefit

1201
00:50:13,039 --> 00:50:10,890
payments to whether your children are

1202
00:50:14,900 --> 00:50:13,049
going to be fully immunized so in order

1203
00:50:16,759 --> 00:50:14,910
to get two thousand dollars from the

1204
00:50:20,509 --> 00:50:16,769
government you have to demonstrate that

1205
00:50:22,039 --> 00:50:20,519
your kids are fully immunized so Meryl

1206
00:50:25,160 --> 00:50:22,049
went mental because one of the things

1207
00:50:28,460 --> 00:50:25,170
that the Health Minister didn't mention

1208
00:50:30,680 --> 00:50:28,470
was that if you've got a conscientious

1209
00:50:34,190 --> 00:50:30,690
objector form you can still get that

1210
00:50:36,109 --> 00:50:34,200
money anyway now probably a reason that

1211
00:50:38,329 --> 00:50:36,119
Tanya Plibersek didn't mention that is

1212
00:50:39,769 --> 00:50:38,339
because only about two percent of

1213
00:50:41,690 --> 00:50:39,779
parents identify as conscientious

1214
00:50:43,309 --> 00:50:41,700
objectors she was making a speech

1215
00:50:45,890 --> 00:50:43,319
immediately after the federal budget

1216
00:50:47,690 --> 00:50:45,900
where she had a lot on her plate and she

1217
00:50:49,940 --> 00:50:47,700
probably isn't interested in advertising

1218
00:50:52,370 --> 00:50:49,950
the fact that parents can get the money

1219
00:50:54,799 --> 00:50:52,380
for nothing it's probably not something

1220
00:50:59,180 --> 00:50:54,809
that she's wants to highlight yeah in

1221
00:51:00,620 --> 00:50:59,190
any case Meryl went mental and started

1222
00:51:02,120 --> 00:51:00,630
stirring up her acolytes saying that

1223
00:51:04,339 --> 00:51:02,130
because she didn't mention it there for

1224
00:51:05,390 --> 00:51:04,349
the government's cutting it therefore

1225
00:51:07,910 --> 00:51:05,400
there'll be no more conscientious

1226
00:51:09,950 --> 00:51:07,920
objections available so apparently

1227
00:51:12,849 --> 00:51:09,960
according to her Facebook page she

1228
00:51:15,140 --> 00:51:12,859
immediately rang the minister's office

1229
00:51:17,450 --> 00:51:15,150
she couldn't get through to the minister

1230
00:51:20,329 --> 00:51:17,460
I wonder why the day after the federal

1231
00:51:22,490 --> 00:51:20,339
budget she was in put through to someone

1232
00:51:25,279 --> 00:51:22,500
else's office where she harassed the

1233
00:51:26,870 --> 00:51:25,289
staff there they said that Tanya

1234
00:51:29,299 --> 00:51:26,880
Plibersek would get back to her when she

1235
00:51:32,660 --> 00:51:29,309
had time that wasn't good enough and so

1236
00:51:34,700 --> 00:51:32,670
she wrote a letter including the phrase

1237
00:51:36,049 --> 00:51:34,710
it's my will which she believes the

1238
00:51:38,509 --> 00:51:36,059
means that they have to respond

1239
00:51:42,200 --> 00:51:38,519
immediately when they hadn't responded

1240
00:51:46,609 --> 00:51:42,210
by the close of business that day she

1241
00:51:49,700 --> 00:51:46,619
called again she called three times to

1242
00:51:51,890 --> 00:51:49,710
the point of which reportedly one of the

1243
00:51:53,960 --> 00:51:51,900
staff said that she was very bald which

1244
00:51:57,559 --> 00:51:53,970
I think means harassed or abused

1245
00:51:59,480 --> 00:51:57,569
verbally I think so yeah yeah because

1246
00:52:00,980 --> 00:51:59,490
Meryl wouldn't accept that the health

1247
00:52:03,769 --> 00:52:00,990
minister would get back to her in due

1248
00:52:05,450 --> 00:52:03,779
time she demanded that she get back to

1249
00:52:08,670 --> 00:52:05,460
her that day

1250
00:52:09,960 --> 00:52:08,680
and so the funny thing is I mean there's

1251
00:52:12,120 --> 00:52:09,970
a couple of points to make about this i

1252
00:52:13,350 --> 00:52:12,130
think there's never been any discussion

1253
00:52:15,030 --> 00:52:13,360
that the conscientious objector clause

1254
00:52:17,340 --> 00:52:15,040
will be removed never it's never been

1255
00:52:19,680 --> 00:52:17,350
discussed she is simply whipping up her

1256
00:52:21,840 --> 00:52:19,690
followers so that they start panicking

1257
00:52:23,400 --> 00:52:21,850
so then she can say i need money to go

1258
00:52:26,520 --> 00:52:23,410
and see the health minister in Canberra

1259
00:52:28,500 --> 00:52:26,530
and secondly she's always going on about

1260
00:52:29,910 --> 00:52:28,510
how skeptics harass government

1261
00:52:32,460 --> 00:52:29,920
departments and waste their time with

1262
00:52:34,260 --> 00:52:32,470
vexatious complaints if there's any

1263
00:52:36,060 --> 00:52:34,270
example of harassing government

1264
00:52:38,760 --> 00:52:36,070
department and wasting their time it's

1265
00:52:40,740 --> 00:52:38,770
with that there's never any discussion

1266
00:52:43,950 --> 00:52:40,750
that the CEO would be off the table as

1267
00:52:47,160 --> 00:52:43,960
she harassed Tanya Plibersek star she

1268
00:52:49,830 --> 00:52:47,170
harassed jenny macklin staff because she

1269
00:52:52,440 --> 00:52:49,840
couldn't get a response 24 hours after

1270
00:52:54,060 --> 00:52:52,450
the budget was announced just finally I

1271
00:52:57,540 --> 00:52:54,070
haven't had a chance to look at this yet

1272
00:52:59,910 --> 00:52:57,550
but there's a special edition of the

1273
00:53:02,670 --> 00:52:59,920
journal called vaccine out this month

1274
00:53:05,580 --> 00:53:02,680
which is specifically about immunization

1275
00:53:07,980 --> 00:53:05,590
decisions and attitudes as a result of

1276
00:53:09,960 --> 00:53:07,990
the internet so it's a whole bunch of

1277
00:53:13,620 --> 00:53:09,970
articles on that Julie lesk has written

1278
00:53:15,060 --> 00:53:13,630
at least one about MMR so I'm really

1279
00:53:18,030 --> 00:53:15,070
keen to get a copy of that and have a

1280
00:53:19,800 --> 00:53:18,040
look at some analysis by oh you know

1281
00:53:21,990 --> 00:53:19,810
people with qualifications and

1282
00:53:24,900 --> 00:53:22,000
experience when it comes to vaccinations

1283
00:53:26,700 --> 00:53:24,910
and about how the Internet has affected

1284
00:53:27,810 --> 00:53:26,710
the way people make decisions now the

1285
00:53:30,210 --> 00:53:27,820
thing I'd be really interesting because

1286
00:53:31,650 --> 00:53:30,220
I mean I've talked about this a lot and

1287
00:53:33,900 --> 00:53:31,660
I give talks about this about the amount

1288
00:53:36,090 --> 00:53:33,910
of [\h__\h] that's out there on the

1289
00:53:38,370 --> 00:53:36,100
internet and you know still the avn is

1290
00:53:42,690 --> 00:53:38,380
coming up the second hit in Australia on

1291
00:53:44,760 --> 00:53:42,700
google so it's it's a problem at a very

1292
00:53:46,350 --> 00:53:44,770
nasty letter from somebody who leaves an

1293
00:53:49,920 --> 00:53:46,360
applied kinesiology because with you

1294
00:53:52,860 --> 00:53:49,930
google applied kinesiology unifirst it

1295
00:53:55,080 --> 00:53:52,870
no I'm I'm I say google it the other day

1296
00:53:57,060 --> 00:53:55,090
and I come up quite quite high my the

1297
00:53:58,170 --> 00:53:57,070
video that you took part in that video a

1298
00:53:59,730 --> 00:53:58,180
couple years back you applied

1299
00:54:01,080 --> 00:53:59,740
kinesiology how it's done where you

1300
00:54:03,150 --> 00:54:01,090
pulled the words out of the Hat we

1301
00:54:05,160 --> 00:54:03,160
showed the balance and this guy said to

1302
00:54:07,950 --> 00:54:05,170
me this isn't real applied conejo to

1303
00:54:09,600 --> 00:54:07,960
this and I said look at all the videos

1304
00:54:11,130 --> 00:54:09,610
on the right because when you're in the

1305
00:54:12,390 --> 00:54:11,140
comments on YouTube the videos are on

1306
00:54:14,190 --> 00:54:12,400
the right there's all these other people

1307
00:54:14,820 --> 00:54:14,200
say this is applied kinesiology and

1308
00:54:18,690 --> 00:54:14,830
their order

1309
00:54:21,480 --> 00:54:18,700
same arm trick idea and something akin

1310
00:54:24,870 --> 00:54:21,490
to what we're talking about which is a

1311
00:54:27,480 --> 00:54:24,880
odd practices is chiropractic sheep

1312
00:54:28,830 --> 00:54:27,490
you've got some information there yeah

1313
00:54:31,110 --> 00:54:28,840
this is something that's in Valley

1314
00:54:33,810 --> 00:54:31,120
tweeted the other day he was just

1315
00:54:35,880 --> 00:54:33,820
interviewed the other way armed EDS

1316
00:54:38,040 --> 00:54:35,890
edurne Stover in the UK who's the

1317
00:54:40,830 --> 00:54:38,050
world's only professor of complementary

1318
00:54:44,850 --> 00:54:40,840
medicine has done a meta study into car

1319
00:54:47,400 --> 00:54:44,860
aquatic ah what he's found is that out

1320
00:54:49,500 --> 00:54:47,410
of 60 randomized controlled trials of

1321
00:54:51,480 --> 00:54:49,510
chiropractic or aquatic carried out

1322
00:54:56,280 --> 00:54:51,490
between January 2000s in july two

1323
00:55:00,060 --> 00:54:56,290
thousand 129 of those 60 studies failed

1324
00:55:02,520 --> 00:55:00,070
to mention any adverse effects at all

1325
00:55:04,140 --> 00:55:02,530
was part of it and of the 31 that

1326
00:55:08,340 --> 00:55:04,150
remained that did mention adverse

1327
00:55:11,100 --> 00:55:08,350
effects 16 of those were out after the

1328
00:55:12,740 --> 00:55:11,110
trial wasn't actually during the trial

1329
00:55:15,060 --> 00:55:12,750
that any of the adverse effects reported

1330
00:55:18,630 --> 00:55:15,070
so basically what they've been doing

1331
00:55:23,460 --> 00:55:18,640
during these trials is just ignoring any

1332
00:55:26,220 --> 00:55:23,470
bad side effects ehh and when they did

1333
00:55:27,780 --> 00:55:26,230
mention them they wait until after the

1334
00:55:30,000 --> 00:55:27,790
study period had completed before

1335
00:55:33,060 --> 00:55:30,010
they've mentioned by the way anything

1336
00:55:35,850 --> 00:55:33,070
had things that went on the basic topic

1337
00:55:38,720 --> 00:55:35,860
of this psalm was that a lot of core

1338
00:55:41,490 --> 00:55:38,730
aquatic injuries may go very highly

1339
00:55:44,190 --> 00:55:41,500
underreported so this is only just how

1340
00:55:46,320 --> 00:55:44,200
out was it this yes as they come out a

1341
00:55:49,590 --> 00:55:46,330
couple of days ago on May fourteenth

1342
00:55:51,150 --> 00:55:49,600
misinformation just why I hadn't

1343
00:55:54,030 --> 00:55:51,160
argument with somebody on Twitter the

1344
00:55:57,210 --> 00:55:54,040
other day this guy just added the blue

1345
00:55:58,950 --> 00:55:57,220
just sent me a tweet about oh this is so

1346
00:56:02,190 --> 00:55:58,960
funny can I just share the story yeah

1347
00:56:04,950 --> 00:56:02,200
good time I'll dr. age you will make

1348
00:56:06,600 --> 00:56:04,960
time you know um this there's a

1349
00:56:08,880 --> 00:56:06,610
particular article from the daily FAIL

1350
00:56:11,100 --> 00:56:08,890
that keeps getting circulated every

1351
00:56:13,680 --> 00:56:11,110
couple of years as new information and

1352
00:56:15,390 --> 00:56:13,690
it's about MMR and autism so every time

1353
00:56:17,100 --> 00:56:15,400
it comes up again it goes viral with the

1354
00:56:19,230 --> 00:56:17,110
anti-vaxxers and they send it to all of

1355
00:56:22,230 --> 00:56:19,240
the high-profile vaccine people on

1356
00:56:25,350 --> 00:56:22,240
Twitter apparently which I am one to say

1357
00:56:27,559 --> 00:56:25,360
look sucked in MMR causes autism now

1358
00:56:30,559 --> 00:56:27,569
it's an actually an article from 2000

1359
00:56:32,390 --> 00:56:30,569
for I think or 2006 but the way the

1360
00:56:33,859 --> 00:56:32,400
daily FAIL website is set up is a tight

1361
00:56:35,749 --> 00:56:33,869
it's time-stamped at the top with the

1362
00:56:37,219 --> 00:56:35,759
current date so if you don't look

1363
00:56:39,829 --> 00:56:37,229
properly it looks like it's a current

1364
00:56:41,479 --> 00:56:39,839
article and usually this happens as a

1365
00:56:43,279 --> 00:56:41,489
cycle it has already happened about

1366
00:56:45,799 --> 00:56:43,289
three times since I've been active and

1367
00:56:47,660 --> 00:56:45,809
it goes around and then everyone thinks

1368
00:56:49,939 --> 00:56:47,670
it's it's new and then eventually they

1369
00:56:52,069 --> 00:56:49,949
go oh it's not so anyway something very

1370
00:56:54,529 --> 00:56:52,079
similar happened on to Monday's ago with

1371
00:56:59,059 --> 00:56:54,539
an article written on the highly arrow

1372
00:57:01,249 --> 00:56:59,069
diet naturalnews com and they wrote

1373
00:57:03,349 --> 00:57:01,259
about the monkey study now the monkey

1374
00:57:06,380 --> 00:57:03,359
study is the famous it was one of

1375
00:57:08,539 --> 00:57:06,390
Wakefield's last studies in fact he's

1376
00:57:11,180 --> 00:57:08,549
not on the paper because it was during

1377
00:57:13,160 --> 00:57:11,190
his downfall but his collaborator Laura

1378
00:57:14,779 --> 00:57:13,170
hewitson who worked at thoughtful house

1379
00:57:17,089 --> 00:57:14,789
where he was subsequently kicked out

1380
00:57:19,519 --> 00:57:17,099
from she did a study where they tried to

1381
00:57:21,529 --> 00:57:19,529
recreate the childhood immunization

1382
00:57:24,819 --> 00:57:21,539
schedule in the states in baby macaques

1383
00:57:26,569 --> 00:57:24,829
and then showed that there was

1384
00:57:29,089 --> 00:57:26,579
neurological damage so they said

1385
00:57:30,859 --> 00:57:29,099
therefore but what they one of the

1386
00:57:33,439 --> 00:57:30,869
things that they did do which was really

1387
00:57:35,989 --> 00:57:33,449
curious was they put for Marisol back

1388
00:57:39,259 --> 00:57:35,999
into the vaccines when it's been taken

1389
00:57:41,870 --> 00:57:39,269
out yeah anyway okay so it was a trashy

1390
00:57:46,130 --> 00:57:41,880
p society it was actually published in

1391
00:57:47,299 --> 00:57:46,140
2010 from an abstract from 2008 now two

1392
00:57:50,420 --> 00:57:47,309
weeks ago it was written up on

1393
00:57:53,059 --> 00:57:50,430
naturalnews com and this guy tweeted it

1394
00:57:54,890 --> 00:57:53,069
to me and said near nin and in it and

1395
00:57:58,249 --> 00:57:54,900
I'm I wrote back and said I'll yeah

1396
00:58:00,890 --> 00:57:58,259
you're mistaken I kids really old and he

1397
00:58:02,269 --> 00:58:00,900
went silent after that and then came

1398
00:58:03,890 --> 00:58:02,279
back again and so I just want to have a

1399
00:58:05,809 --> 00:58:03,900
discussion and all this like it's

1400
00:58:07,999 --> 00:58:05,819
nothing to discuss mate you sent me an

1401
00:58:10,249 --> 00:58:08,009
article that's wrong and old it's been

1402
00:58:12,589 --> 00:58:10,259
debunked here's the link that shows it's

1403
00:58:15,170 --> 00:58:12,599
full of [\h__\h] it's Wakefield it's Hugh at

1404
00:58:17,059 --> 00:58:15,180
CERN has started it all but he decided

1405
00:58:20,539 --> 00:58:17,069
he wanted to engage anyway so he sent me

1406
00:58:23,390 --> 00:58:20,549
a link to some acupuncture stopped and

1407
00:58:26,059 --> 00:58:23,400
said look here's a video on youtube of

1408
00:58:29,719 --> 00:58:26,069
the American army using acupuncture in

1409
00:58:32,479 --> 00:58:29,729
Afghanistan therefore it works okay I

1410
00:58:34,759 --> 00:58:32,489
said first of all that's not evidence

1411
00:58:36,180 --> 00:58:34,769
second of all just because the Army uses

1412
00:58:38,010 --> 00:58:36,190
it doesn't mean it works

1413
00:58:39,420 --> 00:58:38,020
yeah anyway we had this little

1414
00:58:40,920 --> 00:58:39,430
discussion for a little while and then

1415
00:58:42,359 --> 00:58:40,930
eventually he said well you just don't

1416
00:58:44,609 --> 00:58:42,369
know he said I'm surprised you don't

1417
00:58:47,930 --> 00:58:44,619
open your mind and you're not curious

1418
00:58:49,859 --> 00:58:47,940
about I can puncture and I very

1419
00:58:52,079 --> 00:58:49,869
flippantly wrote back and said well

1420
00:58:54,420 --> 00:58:52,089
actually I do and I have and I've

1421
00:58:56,970 --> 00:58:54,430
published and stand to the link to an

1422
00:58:59,220 --> 00:58:56,980
article I published with Ed's are tensed

1423
00:59:02,250 --> 00:58:59,230
a few months ago which is a review of

1424
00:59:04,470 --> 00:59:02,260
acupuncture surprisingly that ginger

1425
00:59:06,120 --> 00:59:04,480
shut him up he said that's not good

1426
00:59:08,309 --> 00:59:06,130
enough because you have to see it with

1427
00:59:10,800 --> 00:59:08,319
your own eyes not good enough because

1428
00:59:12,180 --> 00:59:10,810
you don't agree with me yeah yeah so

1429
00:59:13,770 --> 00:59:12,190
that's not good enough to review other

1430
00:59:15,599 --> 00:59:13,780
people's data you have to see it with

1431
00:59:18,720 --> 00:59:15,609
your own eyes before you can really know

1432
00:59:22,319 --> 00:59:18,730
what's going on that's right no that's

1433
00:59:23,790 --> 00:59:22,329
not how science works so it's like

1434
00:59:25,950 --> 00:59:23,800
saying I you know I really don't think

1435
00:59:27,960 --> 00:59:25,960
the South Poles cold I better go damaged

1436
00:59:30,809 --> 00:59:27,970
well I know and the thing is i said to

1437
00:59:32,609 --> 00:59:30,819
him he said operate in China you know it

1438
00:59:34,740 --> 00:59:32,619
works and I said what's interesting you

1439
00:59:37,200 --> 00:59:34,750
should say that because we're wera dude

1440
00:59:41,190 --> 00:59:37,210
I think for our review we had something

1441
00:59:42,630 --> 00:59:41,200
like 36 studies or maybe less but we

1442
00:59:45,059 --> 00:59:42,640
actually narrowed that down from

1443
00:59:47,370 --> 00:59:45,069
hundreds of studies and what we found

1444
00:59:48,480 --> 00:59:47,380
was these were all n cam funded studies

1445
00:59:51,960 --> 00:59:48,490
the national center for complementary

1446
00:59:53,910 --> 00:59:51,970
alternative medicine in the u.s. we

1447
00:59:56,760 --> 00:59:53,920
found that studies that were positive

1448
00:59:58,620 --> 00:59:56,770
tend to come from China and when they

1449
01:00:01,410 --> 00:59:58,630
were repeated in the rest of the world

1450
01:00:04,230 --> 01:00:01,420
they were negative so it appears that

1451
01:00:05,609 --> 01:00:04,240
there's a bias in acupuncture studies in

1452
01:00:07,650 --> 01:00:05,619
China now that wouldn't really surprise

1453
01:00:09,680 --> 01:00:07,660
anyone I wouldn't think because it's

1454
01:00:13,050 --> 01:00:09,690
culturally ingrained in their society

1455
01:00:15,780 --> 01:00:13,060
they all it's used everywhere it's used

1456
01:00:17,280 --> 01:00:15,790
in emergency rooms over there I don't

1457
01:00:20,280 --> 01:00:17,290
think if your legs falling off but they

1458
01:00:21,960 --> 01:00:20,290
do use it so I wasn't particularly

1459
01:00:23,970 --> 01:00:21,970
surprised to see that there was a bias

1460
01:00:25,380 --> 01:00:23,980
towards positive results in China versus

1461
01:00:27,540 --> 01:00:25,390
the rest of the world so his

1462
01:00:31,650 --> 01:00:27,550
interpretation of that was no you're

1463
01:00:34,230 --> 01:00:31,660
biased I said no no no he went and what

1464
01:00:36,270 --> 01:00:34,240
stage did you stop talking well I I mean

1465
01:00:37,829 --> 01:00:36,280
I tried to don't you told him to piss

1466
01:00:40,170 --> 01:00:37,839
off a couple of times but then he kept

1467
01:00:41,760 --> 01:00:40,180
coming back and he's now said that he

1468
01:00:43,200 --> 01:00:41,770
wants to set up a forum that's better

1469
01:00:43,760 --> 01:00:43,210
for discussion than Twitter and i saw a

1470
01:00:45,230 --> 01:00:43,770
good luck

1471
01:00:48,770 --> 01:00:45,240
that like you know I'm not interested

1472
01:00:50,750 --> 01:00:48,780
but I wasn't told that it was my bias

1473
01:00:53,510 --> 01:00:50,760
that caused the Chinese Studies to be

1474
01:00:55,760 --> 01:00:53,520
negative elsewhere I might know if you

1475
01:00:58,700 --> 01:00:55,770
look at the studies and he said but it

1476
01:01:00,710 --> 01:00:58,710
works I said look you're he sent me a

1477
01:01:03,350 --> 01:01:00,720
newspaper article that was translated

1478
01:01:05,840 --> 01:01:03,360
from Chinese do you remember that BBC

1479
01:01:07,430 --> 01:01:05,850
clip that was turned out to be in

1480
01:01:08,930 --> 01:01:07,440
accurately reported where they did open

1481
01:01:11,030 --> 01:01:08,940
heart surgery on someone and they said

1482
01:01:12,470 --> 01:01:11,040
it was only a punishment but apparently

1483
01:01:14,870 --> 01:01:12,480
they did actually get an aesthetic you

1484
01:01:16,580 --> 01:01:14,880
sent me that he sent me two videos of

1485
01:01:18,680 --> 01:01:16,590
the army doing acupuncture in

1486
01:01:22,070 --> 01:01:18,690
Afghanistan and I said you know what the

1487
01:01:25,160 --> 01:01:22,080
here's the difference mate I've read 29

1488
01:01:27,350 --> 01:01:25,170
pieces of literature on acupuncture

1489
01:01:29,150 --> 01:01:27,360
you've sent me to newspaper articles

1490
01:01:31,070 --> 01:01:29,160
into videos who do you things got more

1491
01:01:33,350 --> 01:01:31,080
information here but I was wrong because

1492
01:01:36,320 --> 01:01:33,360
I didn't have the same answer at my way

1493
01:01:37,970 --> 01:01:36,330
that's what a ball does yeah yeah so

1494
01:01:40,940 --> 01:01:37,980
anyway that's my story thank you very

1495
01:01:42,580 --> 01:01:40,950
much I thought it was funny ankan well I

1496
01:01:45,140 --> 01:01:42,590
guess it is if you look at it that way

1497
01:01:47,390 --> 01:01:45,150
we might round off the think tank on

1498
01:01:49,250 --> 01:01:47,400
that that funny note I think I need a

1499
01:01:52,220 --> 01:01:49,260
little bit of homeopathy in acupuncture

1500
01:01:53,990 --> 01:01:52,230
at the moment myself because I still the

1501
01:01:56,990 --> 01:01:54,000
tailor of the cold year I had it last

1502
01:01:58,460 --> 01:01:57,000
week and almost gone almost gone maybe

1503
01:02:00,310 --> 01:01:58,470
it's the lack of homeopathy in

1504
01:02:02,480 --> 01:02:00,320
acupuncture that's helped it fit better

1505
01:02:06,110 --> 01:02:02,490
maybe you should go on to stop

1506
01:02:08,210 --> 01:02:06,120
homeopathy Plus Facebook page was Monica

1507
01:02:09,740 --> 01:02:08,220
milkha who's a homeopath from Australia

1508
01:02:12,170 --> 01:02:09,750
she's on there at the moment arguing

1509
01:02:13,730 --> 01:02:12,180
with people telling them to bend over

1510
01:02:16,910 --> 01:02:13,740
and take it and stuff like that she's

1511
01:02:18,890 --> 01:02:16,920
very professional she was a homeopath

1512
01:02:20,690 --> 01:02:18,900
who was done by today tonight because

1513
01:02:22,970 --> 01:02:20,700
she was selling what she calls tonics

1514
01:02:26,930 --> 01:02:22,980
which turned out to be highly diluted

1515
01:02:29,000 --> 01:02:26,940
brandy or scotch or something and 14

1516
01:02:30,620 --> 01:02:29,010
patients are now suing her because she

1517
01:02:33,530 --> 01:02:30,630
gave them bacterial infections from

1518
01:02:35,300 --> 01:02:33,540
injecting them with stuff so go and ask

1519
01:02:36,710 --> 01:02:35,310
her for some advice shields person was

1520
01:02:38,660 --> 01:02:36,720
using the same needle and multiple

1521
01:02:40,910 --> 01:02:38,670
people also she that disinfecting well

1522
01:02:43,340 --> 01:02:40,920
yeah she claims that it wasn't her was

1523
01:02:45,500 --> 01:02:43,350
her staff or something but yeah and

1524
01:02:47,690 --> 01:02:45,510
every time we post that news article

1525
01:02:49,940 --> 01:02:47,700
about her being sued and being called

1526
01:02:52,040 --> 01:02:49,950
out in South Australian Parliament she

1527
01:02:54,529 --> 01:02:52,050
says that where it's a witch hunt or

1528
01:02:57,479 --> 01:02:54,539
some [\h__\h] like that

1529
01:02:59,579 --> 01:02:57,489
scope of smoking dr. Agee anyway as you

1530
01:03:00,930 --> 01:02:59,589
finish the very last bits of your

1531
01:03:02,339 --> 01:03:00,940
courage chicken I'd like to thank you

1532
01:03:06,269 --> 01:03:02,349
for coming along tonight to a think tank

1533
01:03:09,209 --> 01:03:06,279
it's been fun thank you she says no me

1534
01:03:13,019 --> 01:03:09,219
and pass the cheap fake you thank you

1535
01:03:14,999 --> 01:03:13,029
and I'm glad next think tank and oh my

1536
01:03:39,330 --> 01:03:15,009
place you can drag a few more people

1537
01:03:44,860 --> 01:03:42,280
thank you for listening to the skeptic

1538
01:03:48,280 --> 01:03:44,870
zone this week with all sorts of strange

1539
01:03:51,480 --> 01:03:48,290
creatures and cats and anti vaccinations

1540
01:03:54,640 --> 01:03:51,490
and all sorts of things a few notes now

1541
01:03:59,530 --> 01:03:54,650
last week we interviewed the lovely

1542
01:04:03,130 --> 01:03:59,540
Julie ladder about her experiences being

1543
01:04:07,300 --> 01:04:03,140
a veterinary student and I gave you the

1544
01:04:09,990 --> 01:04:07,310
wrong URL for her blog only a little bit

1545
01:04:17,440 --> 01:04:10,000
wrong I mean most people found it anyway

1546
01:04:24,900 --> 01:04:17,450
instead of an M I said an N anyway the

1547
01:04:29,260 --> 01:04:24,910
real location for her blog is my D the M

1548
01:04:31,420 --> 01:04:29,270
vacation dot blogspot com check out the

1549
01:04:33,370 --> 01:04:31,430
blog of Julie ladder and thanks once

1550
01:04:35,200 --> 01:04:33,380
again Julie for talking to the skeptic

1551
01:04:36,580 --> 01:04:35,210
zone last week actually we've had some

1552
01:04:38,470 --> 01:04:36,590
comments come back from that so that's

1553
01:04:41,110 --> 01:04:38,480
that's really great what's worth a visit

1554
01:04:46,380 --> 01:04:41,120
also is the website of Australian

1555
01:04:49,240 --> 01:04:46,390
skeptics www skeptics with ok.com a you

1556
01:04:52,150 --> 01:04:49,250
not skeptics with a k that's the yeah

1557
01:04:55,810 --> 01:04:52,160
the podcast from the UK with those crazy

1558
01:04:59,020 --> 01:04:55,820
guys skeptics calm today you and click

1559
01:05:01,450 --> 01:04:59,030
on the link for the journal the journal

1560
01:05:04,210 --> 01:05:01,460
the skeptic it's called the journal of

1561
01:05:07,030 --> 01:05:04,220
Australian skeptics since 1981 you can

1562
01:05:10,600 --> 01:05:07,040
subscribe online and have the our

1563
01:05:12,190 --> 01:05:10,610
skeptic delivered to you via email which

1564
01:05:14,470 --> 01:05:12,200
is half price only about twenty two

1565
01:05:17,200 --> 01:05:14,480
dollars a year worth checking out a

1566
01:05:19,630 --> 01:05:17,210
great journal which I contribute to from

1567
01:05:22,990 --> 01:05:19,640
time to time before I ride off into the

1568
01:05:25,180 --> 01:05:23,000
sun morning sunset sun what's a nice

1569
01:05:27,370 --> 01:05:25,190
sunny day thank you to all those people

1570
01:05:29,500 --> 01:05:27,380
who subscribe of course thank you to all

1571
01:05:32,800 --> 01:05:29,510
those people too who subscribe it's

1572
01:05:37,980 --> 01:05:32,810
because of you the show keeps going you

1573
01:05:43,300 --> 01:05:40,570
excite to bring you more news of another

1574
01:05:45,970 --> 01:05:43,310
test that the australian skeptics hope

1575
01:05:49,450 --> 01:05:45,980
to conduct with another power balance

1576
01:05:51,910 --> 01:05:49,460
power band magic band type band wrist

1577
01:05:56,410 --> 01:05:51,920
band some people have contacted us

1578
01:05:59,410 --> 01:05:56,420
I can't say any more right now but stay

1579
01:06:02,890 --> 01:05:59,420
tuned well i'm off to read my issue of

1580
01:06:04,630 --> 01:06:02,900
the skeptic magazine see what what we've

1581
01:06:06,760 --> 01:06:04,640
been up to here australian skeptics and

1582
01:06:08,320 --> 01:06:06,770
i hope for the pleasure of your company

1583
01:06:11,110 --> 01:06:08,330
no matter what you're doing if you're

1584
01:06:12,850 --> 01:06:11,120
doing the dishes you're jogging hello to

1585
01:06:15,310 --> 01:06:12,860
all those people jogging right now or

1586
01:06:18,610 --> 01:06:15,320
riding your bike hello to all those bike

1587
01:06:21,100 --> 01:06:18,620
riders or doing the dishes or commuting

1588
01:06:22,810 --> 01:06:21,110
stuck on that damn train yet again or

1589
01:06:25,090 --> 01:06:22,820
driving in your car listening to the

1590
01:06:32,320 --> 01:06:25,100
skeptic zone this is Richard Saunders

1591
01:06:35,710 --> 01:06:32,330
signing off from Sydney Australia you've

1592
01:06:40,300 --> 01:06:35,720
been listening to the skeptic zone visit

1593
01:06:42,790 --> 01:06:40,310
our website at www skeptics on TV the